MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by sollitt

Mike, I agree with your post, and also accept that, as we mix in different circles we will have a different perception of 'contentment' in the marketplace.

Ray has hit the nail on the head. Generally 90% will go about their business with no interest whatsoever in the political goings on as they are really of no consequence to them.
This is simply the point that that Carl was making. It's not all doom & gloom.

It is correct to challenge questionable decision making, however to believe that the silent majority support our every protest is to be as guilty of ostrich like behaviour as those we accuse.

There is a real danger (and I think the Classic & Historic group have come close to this at times) of being thought of as the boy who cried wolf.

Yes, I am concerned about the TMC/MPL debacle and will be following developments closely.
I'm not at all close to the Tier 1 Circuit categories and so not fully up with all that occurred. It is certainly far from ideal. Unfortunately the losers in these situations always tend to be the competitors and their supporters and that is unacceptable. There do need to be some accountabilities over this.

Agree. I don't think anyone knows what the majority thinks, or if they have even put any thought into it.

I mean Auckland has a mayor that most Aucklanders didn't vote for because so many couldn't be bothered participating.

It is probably true to say that some are happy with their lot in motorsport because there has been no direct effect on them, and possibly there could be a bit of "Its just the rich boys so they deserve it" mentality, but the impact on those involved in the classes that are being savaged is not all that fair. Yes some have picked sides, Its also turning some sponsors off, and that does effect the sport as a whole as the perception is that its all the same to someone who doesn't know better and they look to other sports to spend their marketing budgets.

[Southern Man]

I find it most interesting that many who post here are concerned about the costs of "Bail outs" that have occurred or might occur in the future and yet no one has mentioned the costs of the Queenstown affair which of course was a "Classic event" that cost the sport and all licence holders a considerable sum as well as ruining the lives of many whilst the Police pondered over laying charges.

Many of the processes and requirements in place today affecting all aspects of the sport from clubsport through to rallies and to race meetings are directly as a consequence of that particular classic / historic race meeting.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Many of the processes and requirements in place today affecting all aspects of the sport from clubsport through to rallies and to race meetings are directly as a consequence of that particular classic / historic race meeting.

Correct. When tardy drivers (and there are plenty of them) moan because we won't accept their entry after the ASR's quite clearly stated the final closing date, we have to explain to them why that it is and explain who ends up in the dock when things go to custard. Queenstown was a massive wake up call (and a costly one at that).

Equally, since being part of an organising team for sprints, hillclimbs and race meetings, going back over 20 years in NZ, I am still frustrated by how few drivers get their entries in early. At least half the events I have been involved with had less than a viable number at the initial closing date, even though all meetings subsequently, were viable. Drivers moan about the entry cost, yet are prepared to pay a late entry fee penalty, even though we return entry fees as long as the driver cancels 24 hours before documentation.

Telephone calls after midnight when someone has finally got his car together and wants to enter were commonplace until we went for internet/on line entry only.

That is a tough call for an organiser to cancel through lack of entries, as the circuit still has to be paid for, even if other fees don't.

There are many events in the UK that were so popular (even at Sprint & Hillclimb level) that if you didn't get your entry in promptly, you'd be on the reserve list, no matter who you were.

For our next meeting, the late entry fee is going up to $100...

Off topic a bit maybe, but symptomatic of the somewhat casual attitude of most drivers, who haven't a clue what is involved behind the scenes of a club meeting, let alone a higher profile event.

[sollitt]

Ain't that the truth?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by socram

Correct. When tardy drivers (and there are plenty of them) moan because we won't accept their entry after the ASR's quite clearly stated the final closing date, we have to explain to them why that it is and explain who ends up in the dock when things go to custard. Queenstown was a massive wake up call (and a costly one at that).

Equally, since being part of an organising team for sprints, hillclimbs and race meetings, going back over 20 years in NZ, I am still frustrated by how few drivers get their entries in early. At least half the events I have been involved with had less than a viable number at the initial closing date, even though all meetings subsequently, were viable. Drivers moan about the entry cost, yet are prepared to pay a late entry fee penalty, even though we return entry fees as long as the driver cancels 24 hours before documentation.

Telephone calls after midnight when someone has finally got his car together and wants to enter were commonplace until we went for internet/on line entry only.

That is a tough call for an organiser to cancel through lack of entries, as the circuit still has to be paid for, even if other fees don't.

There are many events in the UK that were so popular (even at Sprint & Hillclimb level) that if you didn't get your entry in promptly, you'd be on the reserve list, no matter who you were.

For our next meeting, the late entry fee is going up to $100...

Off topic a bit maybe, but symptomatic of the somewhat casual attitude of most drivers, who haven't a clue what is involved behind the scenes of a club meeting, let alone a higher profile event.

and are the same drivers that b!tch and moan when they only get three runs because they couldn't organise themselves to be queing behind the start line for a sprint, instead of yapping in the pit area, with an enpty startline.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by sollitt

There is a real danger (and I think the Classic & Historic group have come close to this at times) of being thought of as the boy who cried wolf.

It is true that some of the historic and classic fraternity had raised concerns over a number of years regarding the potential risk to MSNZ (member clubs) as a result of MSNZ's interests in the commercial promotion of the sport - primarily the interest in TMC. Unfortunately those concerns have eventuated with the failure of TMC/MPL.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the raising of this matter on an historical basis as "crying wolf" especially as the concerns have regrettably come to reality. Additionally, we do not yet know the extent of the financial impact on member clubs. For starters, there is the amount that MSNZ is exposed to MPL as an unsecured creditor (amount unknown at this time) and there is also the write-off of the capital (shareholding) that MSNZ had on behalf of member clubs in MPL, which is further $90,000. There will probably be other costs related to the demise of MPL that will impact on MSNZ.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by RogerH

It is true that some of the historic and classic fraternity had raised concerns over a number of years regarding the potential risk to MSNZ (member clubs) as a result of MSNZ's interests in the commercial promotion of the sport - primarily the interest in TMC. Unfortunately those concerns have eventuated with the failure of TMC/MPL.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the raising of this matter on an historical basis as "crying wolf" especially as the concerns have regrettably come to reality. Additionally, we do not yet know the extent of the financial impact on member clubs. For starters, there is the amount that MSNZ is exposed to MPL as an unsecured creditor (amount unknown at this time) and there is also the write-off of the capital (shareholding) that MSNZ had on behalf of member clubs in MPL, which is further $90,000. There will probably be other costs related to the demise of MPL that will impact on MSNZ.

So how much did Queenstown cost he sport?

[socram]

From memory, wasn't it about $250,000?

[sollitt]

Roger, the 'crying wolf' comment wasn't about the TMC issue, moreso that if we continually complain about the trivial, the masses will ignore the cries when the larger issues are raised.

Carl, I don't believe such comparisons with the Queenstown episode are appropriate, nor that blame can be apportioned to any particular sector of the sport for it's occurrance.

[Icarus_nz]

Big news everybody! Remember the days when a NZ Championship ment something? Well those days are gone!
We're desperate so we're seriously lowering the bar.
You too could be a winner since there will be more titles and trophies than entries...


2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship

Rd 1: Manfeild - 9 Feb 2013
Rd 2: Taupo - 9 March 2013

Have you ever wanted to be a NZ Motorsport Champion? Until eight weeks ago I had never considered this to be a realistic goal for me. Married, kids, mortgage, and talent slipping by the day, the chances of ever being a recognised champion in my chosen sport were never even a consideration.

Now not only am I excited but an opportunity for many people to share this desire has been created with the 2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship. Held over 2 rounds, the chance to be that person has never been easier. David Dovey, lRC President and myself Julian Hardy have been working to create a series that not only offers you this great chance to become a NZ champion, but in a timely manner and there will be 14 different ways to get your name embossed into Motorsport history.

Each round takes place at a MSNZ Race Championship Series event. Classes have been created using what we have considered to the most competitive model available inside NZ's existing Motorsport fleet. And even easier is that you have a choice on how long you want to race for.

The titles breakdown into the following seven classes:
A. GT Class - 3 hour
B. 3501cc and over - 3 hour
C. 1901-3500cc - 3 hour
D. Up to 1900cc - 3 hour

E. 3501cc and over -1 hour
F. 1901-3500cc -1 hour
G. Up to 1900cc - 1 hour

Quite simply you and your car are fully capable of being a NZ Motorsport champion. All it is going to take is a small commitment over 2 weekends, February 9 at Manfeild and March 9 at Taupo. At the end of the Taupo round, should you be successful you will be awarded a MSNZ Championship title for your class and a trophy for your efforts. We will also reward the overall series champions by inviting you to attend the MSNZ annual awards dinner. For our other successful champions you will be acknowledged at the awards dinner, but attendance will be at your discretion and expense, however we will present you and your title plus trophy at Taupo on Sunday March 9th at a special presentation.

So what are you waiting for? Each round has the ability to have a grid of 42. You have a better than a 1 in 7 chance of a NZ title. At 39 with 2 kids and a mortgage this is my best chance of a MSNZ title. Are you going to be the guy who stops my aspirations, or will I be the guy to beat you to the flag? Either way, I'm going to take the punt and give this a red hot go. See you or not at the track!

If this is you, you will need the championship articles which are due out this week (www.motorsport.org.nz) and you'll need to get on our email list. Register your interest by emailing david@exceed.co.nzor call either myself or David now!

Julian Hardy 027 523 8290
David Dovey 0274 436100

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Big news everybody! Remember the days when a NZ Championship ment something? Well those days are gone!
We're desperate so we're seriously lowering the bar.
You too could be a winner since there will be more titles and trophies than entries...


2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship

Rd 1: Manfeild - 9 Feb 2013
Rd 2: Taupo - 9 March 2013

Have you ever wanted to be a NZ Motorsport Champion? Until eight weeks ago I had never considered this to be a realistic goal for me. Married, kids, mortgage, and talent slipping by the day, the chances of ever being a recognised champion in my chosen sport were never even a consideration.

Now not only am I excited but an opportunity for many people to share this desire has been created with the 2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship. Held over 2 rounds, the chance to be that person has never been easier. David Dovey, lRC President and myself Julian Hardy have been working to create a series that not only offers you this great chance to become a NZ champion, but in a timely manner and there will be 14 different ways to get your name embossed into Motorsport history.

Each round takes place at a MSNZ Race Championship Series event. Classes have been created using what we have considered to the most competitive model available inside NZ's existing Motorsport fleet. And even easier is that you have a choice on how long you want to race for.

The titles breakdown into the following seven classes:
A. GT Class - 3 hour
B. 3501cc and over - 3 hour
C. 1901-3500cc - 3 hour
D. Up to 1900cc - 3 hour

E. 3501cc and over -1 hour
F. 1901-3500cc -1 hour
G. Up to 1900cc - 1 hour

Quite simply you and your car are fully capable of being a NZ Motorsport champion. All it is going to take is a small commitment over 2 weekends, February 9 at Manfeild and March 9 at Taupo. At the end of the Taupo round, should you be successful you will be awarded a MSNZ Championship title for your class and a trophy for your efforts. We will also reward the overall series champions by inviting you to attend the MSNZ annual awards dinner. For our other successful champions you will be acknowledged at the awards dinner, but attendance will be at your discretion and expense, however we will present you and your title plus trophy at Taupo on Sunday March 9th at a special presentation.

So what are you waiting for? Each round has the ability to have a grid of 42. You have a better than a 1 in 7 chance of a NZ title. At 39 with 2 kids and a mortgage this is my best chance of a MSNZ title. Are you going to be the guy who stops my aspirations, or will I be the guy to beat you to the flag? Either way, I'm going to take the punt and give this a red hot go. See you or not at the track!

If this is you, you will need the championship articles which are due out this week (www.motorsport.org.nz) and you'll need to get on our email list. Register your interest by emailing david@exceed.co.nzor call either myself or David now!

Julian Hardy 027 523 8290
David Dovey 0274 436100

I read this and had a similar reaction. Once upon a time the MSNZ Championship status was meant to be the pinnacle of the sport. Now it seems they want to hand them out to anybody and you have a good chance to be a MSNZ Champion even if you have "talent slipping by the day". It really seems to demean the Championship status or maybe it is just dumb marketing?

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Big news everybody! Remember the days when a NZ Championship ment something? Well those days are gone!
We're desperate so we're seriously lowering the bar.
You too could be a winner since there will be more titles and trophies than entries...


2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship

Rd 1: Manfeild - 9 Feb 2013
Rd 2: Taupo - 9 March 2013

Have you ever wanted to be a NZ Motorsport Champion? Until eight weeks ago I had never considered this to be a realistic goal for me. Married, kids, mortgage, and talent slipping by the day, the chances of ever being a recognised champion in my chosen sport were never even a consideration.

Now not only am I excited but an opportunity for many people to share this desire has been created with the 2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship. Held over 2 rounds, the chance to be that person has never been easier. David Dovey, lRC President and myself Julian Hardy have been working to create a series that not only offers you this great chance to become a NZ champion, but in a timely manner and there will be 14 different ways to get your name embossed into Motorsport history.

Each round takes place at a MSNZ Race Championship Series event. Classes have been created using what we have considered to the most competitive model available inside NZ's existing Motorsport fleet. And even easier is that you have a choice on how long you want to race for.

The titles breakdown into the following seven classes:
A. GT Class - 3 hour
B. 3501cc and over - 3 hour
C. 1901-3500cc - 3 hour
D. Up to 1900cc - 3 hour

E. 3501cc and over -1 hour
F. 1901-3500cc -1 hour
G. Up to 1900cc - 1 hour

Quite simply you and your car are fully capable of being a NZ Motorsport champion. All it is going to take is a small commitment over 2 weekends, February 9 at Manfeild and March 9 at Taupo. At the end of the Taupo round, should you be successful you will be awarded a MSNZ Championship title for your class and a trophy for your efforts. We will also reward the overall series champions by inviting you to attend the MSNZ annual awards dinner. For our other successful champions you will be acknowledged at the awards dinner, but attendance will be at your discretion and expense, however we will present you and your title plus trophy at Taupo on Sunday March 9th at a special presentation.

So what are you waiting for? Each round has the ability to have a grid of 42. You have a better than a 1 in 7 chance of a NZ title. At 39 with 2 kids and a mortgage this is my best chance of a MSNZ title. Are you going to be the guy who stops my aspirations, or will I be the guy to beat you to the flag? Either way, I'm going to take the punt and give this a red hot go. See you or not at the track!

If this is you, you will need the championship articles which are due out this week (www.motorsport.org.nz) and you'll need to get on our email list. Register your interest by emailing david@exceed.co.nzor call either myself or David now!

Julian Hardy 027 523 8290
David Dovey 0274 436100

Better get a new WOF on my 1999 Honda Accord and get an entry in. It wont matter that the last time I was in a National Championship event was 1986.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Big news everybody! Remember the days when a NZ Championship ment something? Well those days are gone!
We're desperate so we're seriously lowering the bar.
You too could be a winner since there will be more titles and trophies than entries...


2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship

Rd 1: Manfeild - 9 Feb 2013
Rd 2: Taupo - 9 March 2013

Have you ever wanted to be a NZ Motorsport Champion? Until eight weeks ago I had never considered this to be a realistic goal for me. Married, kids, mortgage, and talent slipping by the day, the chances of ever being a recognised champion in my chosen sport were never even a consideration.

Now not only am I excited but an opportunity for many people to share this desire has been created with the 2013 MSNZ Endurance Championship. Held over 2 rounds, the chance to be that person has never been easier. David Dovey, lRC President and myself Julian Hardy have been working to create a series that not only offers you this great chance to become a NZ champion, but in a timely manner and there will be 14 different ways to get your name embossed into Motorsport history.

Each round takes place at a MSNZ Race Championship Series event. Classes have been created using what we have considered to the most competitive model available inside NZ's existing Motorsport fleet. And even easier is that you have a choice on how long you want to race for.

The titles breakdown into the following seven classes:
A. GT Class - 3 hour
B. 3501cc and over - 3 hour
C. 1901-3500cc - 3 hour
D. Up to 1900cc - 3 hour

E. 3501cc and over -1 hour
F. 1901-3500cc -1 hour
G. Up to 1900cc - 1 hour

Quite simply you and your car are fully capable of being a NZ Motorsport champion. All it is going to take is a small commitment over 2 weekends, February 9 at Manfeild and March 9 at Taupo. At the end of the Taupo round, should you be successful you will be awarded a MSNZ Championship title for your class and a trophy for your efforts. We will also reward the overall series champions by inviting you to attend the MSNZ annual awards dinner. For our other successful champions you will be acknowledged at the awards dinner, but attendance will be at your discretion and expense, however we will present you and your title plus trophy at Taupo on Sunday March 9th at a special presentation.

So what are you waiting for? Each round has the ability to have a grid of 42. You have a better than a 1 in 7 chance of a NZ title. At 39 with 2 kids and a mortgage this is my best chance of a MSNZ title. Are you going to be the guy who stops my aspirations, or will I be the guy to beat you to the flag? Either way, I'm going to take the punt and give this a red hot go. See you or not at the track!

If this is you, you will need the championship articles which are due out this week (www.motorsport.org.nz) and you'll need to get on our email list. Register your interest by emailing david@exceed.co.nzor call either myself or David now!

Julian Hardy 027 523 8290
David Dovey 0274 436100

that would be one of the most amatuer releases i have ever read in a lifetime of being involved in motorsport...............
sort of sums up the current state of play really that it was even approved for release..........
and yes a national title just for helping us make up the numbers......god help NZ motorsport..

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Big news everybody! Remember the days when a NZ Championship ment something? Well those days are gone!

I am genuinely stunned. Are you taking the mickey or is that for real?

[Evomike]

I wonder if someone will roll their Mazda mx5 out?

[raymond]

There will be one NZ Endurance Champion, Award presented at Motorsport Awards Dinner. The rest are class winners. No different to old B&H days or current Rally Championship.

Not sure if MSNZ can approve press-releases put out by promoters. MSNZ only approves the regs and tech rules.

Agree that it is not the way I would promote a NZ title, but promoters are strange beasts.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by raymond

.....
Not sure if MSNZ can approve press-releases put out by promoters .....

The trouble is Crunch, that it came out as an official MSNZ eFlag so like it or not it carries the MSNZ "seal of approval" and for all intents would be assumed to reflect MSNZ's position.
I would assume that a promoter would not have the ability to use the MSNZ eFlag system without approval which should include some sort of vetting of the contents.
There is nothing wrong with having an Endurance Championship but the way it has been portrayed is tacky and is reminiscent of a Readers Digest mass marketing campaign where you have a one in seven chance of winning a prize. Surely things aren't that desperate that there is a need to market MSNZ Championships like this?

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by RogerH

The trouble is Crunch, that it came out as an official MSNZ eFlag so like it or not it carries the MSNZ "seal of approval" and for all intents would be assumed to reflect MSNZ's position.
I would assume that a promoter would not have the ability to use the MSNZ eFlag system without approval which should include some sort of vetting of the contents.
There is nothing wrong with having an Endurance Championship but the way it has been portrayed is tacky and is reminiscent of a Readers Digest mass marketing campaign where you have a one in seven chance of winning a prize. Surely things aren't that desperate that there is a need to market MSNZ Championships like this?

Yeah but look who wrote it...he's not known for his professionalism ... I mean the email he sent you was an absolute shocker..

[KRDG]

Originally Posted by raymond

There will be one NZ Endurance Champion, Award presented at Motorsport Awards Dinner. The rest are class winners. No different to old B&H days or current Rally Championship.

Not sure if MSNZ can approve press-releases put out by promoters. MSNZ only approves the regs and tech rules.

Agree that it is not the way I would promote a NZ title, but promoters are strange beasts.

For heavens sake Crunch.

Show some leadership. You are a VP of this muddled organization (MSNZ). Either distance yourself from this or take the authors of this release and instigators of the new series apart. And how can you call two rounds a series. This is utter rubbish and to announce it just 6 weeks before the event in question, which is the NZ GP is even more unbelievable. Amateur, unprepared………………… I am lost for words.

The New Zealand Grand Prix!!!! The event at the top. The big one!

And these guys have the audacity to try and put something like this together with such short notice and planning, then add championship status.

‘Details will be available this week’. What sort of statement is that on a Thursday afternoon. Unbelievable again

A few people will be spinning in their graves right now at the ineptitude being shown. It smack’s of utter desperation of course to have something or should I say anything on track with the TRS.

I can hardly believe what I read in this release.

Maybe it is a joke................Please let it be a joke……………….

[harcey]

Originally Posted by raymond

There will be one NZ Endurance Champion, Award presented at Motorsport Awards Dinner. The rest are class winners. No different to old B&H days or current Rally Championship.

Not sure if MSNZ can approve press-releases put out by promoters. MSNZ only approves the regs and tech rules.

Agree that it is not the way I would promote a NZ title, but promoters are strange beasts.

those 2 are promoters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chappelli]

The only thing the release was missing was "but wait there's more, order now and recieve a free set of steak knives to go with your MSNZ title".

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by CDM

If MSNZ want a SERIOUS NZ Endurance championship then why not allocate it to the SI Endurance Series? We have constantly proved ourselves by providing the best Endurance Series in New Zealand, with the best Endurance Cars in NZ, and some of the best Endurance Drivers in NZ.

The SI Endurance Series has been running for more than 35 years without any form of recognition from the National Body and perhaps that is why it has been so successful.

I too wondered at the media release and the gifting of a NZ Championship status to a 2 event special based in the North Island for If one was to make this into a proper meaningful NZ championship then these two events (ideally three and include either Puke or HD in the mix) should have been added to the existing successful 3 rounds conducted in the South.

As Chris states it does appear as though it is based on the rules, regulations and format of the SI Endurance Series and once again I cannot help but feel that just like in the days following the civil war in the USA that some "Carpet baggers" have been set loose to once again plunder the South.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

The SI Endurance Series has been running for more than 35 years without any form of recognition from the National Body and perhaps that is why it has been so successful.

I too wondered at the media release and the gifting of a NZ Championship status to a 2 event special based in the North Island for If one was to make this into a proper meaningful NZ championship then these two events (ideally three and include either Puke or HD in the mix) should have been added to the existing successful 3 rounds conducted in the South.

As Chris states it does appear as though it is based on the rules, regulations and format of the SI Endurance Series and once again I cannot help but feel that just like in the days following the civil war in the USA that some "Carpet baggers" have been set loose to once again plunder the South.

totally agree carl........do these guys also think competitors have cars /teams /budget and all equipment waiting patiently behind the garage door ready to come out at 5 mins notice..!!!!!!!!
i see chris's F/B post was removed pretty quickly after the savage anti MNZ comments it got in a matter of minutes...
really what is going on down in the capital...does anyone think anything through????

[CDM]

(Just tried editing my last post, but cant)

Actually I have just had it.... ummm.... "pointed out to me"..... that in fact the SIERDC were invited to be part of the NZ Endurance thing

All i can say is that the offer made was totally unsuitable to SIERDC & I wont say anymore than that as i dont need another unpleasant phone call from those who represent MNZ.

[raymond]

Yes, point taken Roger. It does look as though MSNZ has supported this via an E-flag.

Chris, it was offered to SI Endurance, but they/you chose not to want it as I understand.

It's not a good look at all.