MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Yes indeed, however people are often convicted in a court of law on somewhat less than photographic evidence or recorded conversations

Best to be sure of ones facts though , just remind me again of how much the Arthur Alan Thomas and David Bain cases cost the NZ taxpayer

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Best to be sure of ones facts though , just remind me again of how much the Arthur Alan Thomas and David Bain cases cost the NZ taxpayer

David Bain was guilty as sin in my humble opinion

Let me also add that in those cases there were no witnesses of any kind, the cases were based on purely forensic and circumstantial evidence.

In this case we have a number of different and unrelated witnesses who can bear testimony to what was said. That would stand up in a court of law.

[Sommersby]

Hi,

I posted the Press Release at Bricks request, as he said he hadn't seen any evidence of the proposed truce.

I'd heard rumours of the V8ST's being proposed to run at Pukekohe, and also the proposed 'shared' round at Taupo.

Not to sound harsh, but from a Network News standpoint, the Taupo angle was a little weak. However the prospect of Greg Murphy running at Pukekohe had genuine News value.

So I called MSNZ reps who were at Teretonga, and was advised to talk to Brian Budd. He confirmed that yes there would be a recommendation from MSNZ to V8SC to include the V8ST's at Pukekohe. He stressed that this was no done deal, to which I replied its just good to see some possitive dialogue between the parties involved.

My story that night, said " that Greg Murphy COULD be on track for the V8Supercar weekend".

Brick, there was no press release for the Puke angle - simply beacuse I called on that old fashioned journalistic method of chasing a story, rather than waiting for it to be handed to me via a press release.

Of course following events made my story obsolete, but when it went to air it was entirely facutal.

I have no doubt that Brian will back this up.

Shaun.

[flyingduck]

Shaun I think people are not used to jurnos not living off press releases. Good work chasing down a story

[Swedish Brick]

Thanks for that Shaun, backs up quite nicley what I was saying all along. Hopefully its all understood now.
Just a pity that some have ranted in the media with the incorrect facts

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Thanks for that Shaun, backs up quite nicley what I was saying all along. Hopefully its all understood now.
Just a pity that some have ranted in the media with the incorrect facts

The fact remains though that V8SC were happy to entertain the idea of having ST run with them, but then MSNZ did a u-turn and said they weren't prepared to have them after all. Sounds like someone gave them a legal opinion and they got scared maybe?

[Swedish Brick]

Oh have the Aussies said they were keen? I haven't seen that. Interesting. But as I understand it MSNZ were committed with existing deals. Although I dont recall them saying with exactly who.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Oh have the Aussies said they were keen? I haven't seen that. Interesting. But as I understand it MSNZ were committed with existing deals. Although I dont recall them saying with exactly who.

I think they must have got a bit worried about having to drop a class, but there would have been space to fit everyone in I think.

Still doesn't explain the bizarre behaviour of Mr Budd after that though.

[Alpina107]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Best to be sure of ones facts though , just remind me again of how much the Arthur Alan Thomas and David Bain cases cost the NZ taxpayer

Gee, wasn't the Arthur Alan Thomas case the one where the governing body (the Police) fabricated evidence (told lies) to try and get something they shouldn't have?

I hope it was just a coincidence that you chose that one to make your point about MNZ. (Motorsport's governing body)

[DX20VT]

Does anyone think this

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

The fact remains though that V8SC were happy to entertain the idea of having ST run with them, but then MSNZ did a u-turn and said they weren't prepared to have them after all. ?

may have something to do with this?

Originally Posted by Member CCC

... Mark Petch went to Taupo Motorsport park to try and negotiate to take over the March MSNZ Championship date and backdoor the sport. Not exactly working with MSNZ to bring things back together!

[Swedish Brick]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I think they must have got a bit worried about having to drop a class, but there would have been space to fit everyone in I think.

Still doesn't explain the bizarre behaviour of Mr Budd after that though.

Well he say to Shaun it wasn't a done deal. So somewhere there's a sticking point.
Unless the bizzare bit you are talking about is the alleged phone calls and "destroy st" comments.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

But as I understand it MSNZ were committed with existing deals. Although I dont recall them saying with exactly who.

There's a hole in your hat son and you're talking through it... it's a matter of public record. You must have read the "official press releases". Classes that have previously supported V8SC events. You know, like Porsche GT3's, Swift Sport Cup, NZV8's, NZ Utes etc.

Trouble is Brick, either those classes don't exist anymore, or they've gone somewere else...

[Swedish Brick]

Yes that's what I'm talking about, they haven't said EXACTLY who.
There's also the question of possible sponsor contracts etc

[Sommersby]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Well he say to Shaun it wasn't a done deal. So somewhere there's a sticking point.
Unless the bizzare bit you are talking about is the alleged phone calls and "destroy st" comments.

It does get sticky with the about turn in MSNZ's support, based on the requirement to look after classes who previously raced at the V8SC round.

But they invited F5000 who have no history.

I understand that the V8ST involvement was supported by the event manager for the V8SC round.

[Sommersby]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Thanks for that Shaun, backs up quite nicley what I was saying all along. Hopefully its all understood now.
Just a pity that some have ranted in the media with the incorrect facts

That said, there are plenty of other issues out there.

I've received some damning documents from a variety of sources. I've had conversations with folk from both sides... some conversations that belong on Jerry Springer.

There is a lot of passion, emotions and ego at play in this situation - nothing new in motorsport. It's the vendettas, ulterior motives and straight out nastiness that make this so horrid.

It's a shame that Shayne Harris decided not to appear on our show, but I respect his choice.

Until this issue (these issues) see some light, this will remain a dank, murky and festering situation. And the longer it goes on the uglier the result could be.

From a slightly egocentric point of view, I appreciate some feel I'm biased. To this I say, look again at my reports and what has been said. Admittedly, MSNZ have said a few disparaging things about me, but I'm a big boy. If anything I went too easy on both series last year...was it out of embarrassment for what was going on?

Still, I'm only one of many reporters.

If I have a bias, it is towards the drivers. They make this a sport, they provide the thrills and emotion. I challenge anybody to dispute all of New Zealand's best Touring car drivers are in V8ST.

[KRDG]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Oh have the Aussies said they were keen? I haven't seen that. Interesting. But as I understand it MSNZ were committed with existing deals. Although I dont recall them saying with exactly who.

So why were MSNZ at the same time brokering a deal with the other V8's (F5000's) to attend the event?

Please explain what part of 'existing deal' that fits into?

The whole saga of who fills what spot at this event is a joke inspired by incompetence of the governing body, MSNZ. You cannot read it any other way.

Makes you feel sorry for the V8SC promoters.

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Sommersby

I challenge anybody to dispute all of New Zealand's best Touring car drivers are in V8ST.

On a Fun note, at Manfield watching the NZV8's last weekend, we were all glued to our chairs watching the enthrawling battle between Andie Anderson & Kevin Williams . . . . . just waiting for the 'Crazy Horse" Anderson to crash into 'Reflective Sticker" Williams for lap after lap as they swaped position after position during each lap. Hats off to them both for keeping it clean but it does show that you can have an exciting race without the glammour boys.

(I am still probably more looking foward to the Super Tourers).

[Swedish Brick]

Originally Posted by KRDG

So why were MSNZ at the same time brokering a deal with the other V8's (F5000's) to attend the event?

Please explain what part of 'existing deal' that fits into?

No idea. I never everything was clear and made sense.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Yes that's what I'm talking about, they haven't said EXACTLY who.
There's also the question of possible sponsor contracts etc

They should remember that everyone is trying to accomplish something big, not realizing that life is made up of little things.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Well he say to Shaun it wasn't a done deal. So somewhere there's a sticking point.
Unless the bizzare bit you are talking about is the alleged phone calls and "destroy st" comments.

Yes, and plenty of witnesses to those comments, even though he hasn't posted them here

[Vanishing Point]

Originally Posted by KRDG

So why were MSNZ at the same time brokering a deal with the other V8's (F5000's) to attend the event?

Please explain what part of 'existing deal' that fits into?

The whole saga of who fills what spot at this event is a joke inspired by incompetence of the governing body, MSNZ. You cannot read it any other way.

Makes you feel sorry for the V8SC promoters.

It is obvious, MSNZ's behaviour has been dishonest, unconstitutional and deceitful over the Supercar Round at Puke... even the die hard MSNZ supporters must accept it doesn't look good. The question is how do we make Harris, Budd and co accountable and responsible for their actions, how do we get rid of them?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

No idea. I never everything was clear and made sense.

I'll have whatever you're on...

[Member CCC]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point

It is obvious, MSNZ's behaviour has been dishonest, unconstitutional and deceitful over the Supercar Round at Puke... even the die hard MSNZ supporters must accept it doesn't look good. The question is how do we make Harris, Budd and co accountable and responsible for their actions, how do we get rid of them?

Maybe you should read your own post when you quote "dishonest" and find out the real facts before you accuse our sport!

Fact in the minutes from the January meeting between MSNZ and ST

"Mark Petch stated that what V8STs would like to see is both NZV8s and V8STs competing on the same programme at the MSNZ meeting at Taupo on 8/9 March
Mark Petch stated that V8STs would race on Sunday with qualifying on Sunday at 10am. On Saturday there would be a 1 hour test session. Races would be 3 x 15 laps.
There was thinking that the BMW classes would need to be reduced to accommodate as ideally only the faster BMW classes should be there.
The V8ST appearance at Taupo would need to include Suzuki and V8 Utes"

This was only ever a discussion as part of the meeting as was the possible V8SC opportunity. How was this ever going to work with a full program? Why would the sport ever ditch classes that they had made a commitment to in favour of ST?

Fact Mark Petch arrived at Taupo Motorsport Park and try and take over the MSNZ March date and backdoor the sport! Ring Taupo Motorsport Park to verify I have and Mark didn't respond to my question to him about this on here!

So who's behavior was dishonest? Hardly working with the sport to put things back together! Of course the media don't bother to research the facts they just print stories that will attract readers or push their own one sided views much like the MSNZ haters on here!

[KRDG]

Originally Posted by Member CCC

Maybe you should read your own post when you quote "dishonest" and find out the real facts before you accuse our sport!

Fact in the minutes from the January meeting between MSNZ and ST

"Mark Petch stated that what V8STs would like to see is both NZV8s and V8STs competing on the same programme at the MSNZ meeting at Taupo on 8/9 March
Mark Petch stated that V8STs would race on Sunday with qualifying on Sunday at 10am. On Saturday there would be a 1 hour test session. Races would be 3 x 15 laps.
There was thinking that the BMW classes would need to be reduced to accommodate as ideally only the faster BMW classes should be there.
The V8ST appearance at Taupo would need to include Suzuki and V8 Utes"

This was only ever a discussion as part of the meeting as was the possible V8SC opportunity. How was this ever going to work with a full program? Why would the sport ever ditch classes that they had made a commitment to in favour of ST?

Fact Mark Petch arrived at Taupo Motorsport Park and try and take over the MSNZ March date and backdoor the sport! Ring Taupo Motorsport Park to verify I have and Mark didn't respond to my question to him about this on here!

So who's behavior was dishonest? Hardly working with the sport to put things back together! Of course the media don't bother to research the facts they just print stories that will attract readers or push their own one sided views much like the MSNZ haters on here!

Excellent.

Can you post the full minutes please?

[Sommersby]

Originally Posted by Member CCC

Maybe you should read your own post when you quote "dishonest" and find out the real facts before you accuse our sport!

Fact in the minutes from the January meeting between MSNZ and ST

"Mark Petch stated that what V8STs would like to see is both NZV8s and V8STs competing on the same programme at the MSNZ meeting at Taupo on 8/9 March
Mark Petch stated that V8STs would race on Sunday with qualifying on Sunday at 10am. On Saturday there would be a 1 hour test session. Races would be 3 x 15 laps.
There was thinking that the BMW classes would need to be reduced to accommodate as ideally only the faster BMW classes should be there.
The V8ST appearance at Taupo would need to include Suzuki and V8 Utes"

This was only ever a discussion as part of the meeting as was the possible V8SC opportunity. How was this ever going to work with a full program? Why would the sport ever ditch classes that they had made a commitment to in favour of ST?

Fact Mark Petch arrived at Taupo Motorsport Park and try and take over the MSNZ March date and backdoor the sport! Ring Taupo Motorsport Park to verify I have and Mark didn't respond to my question to him about this on here!

So who's behavior was dishonest? Hardly working with the sport to put things back together! Of course the media don't bother to research the facts they just print stories that will attract readers or push their own one sided views much like the MSNZ haters on here!

Aside from what could be construed to be a slightly veiled attempt to have a go at me CCC (which I understand is not in keeping with the spirit of this forum). This is a bit of a red herring. My story about V8SC was written based on a conversation with Brian Budd.

That said, I hear there is come controversy over the accuracy of these minutes due to them not reflecting what people thought they said. I'm not by the way trying to take a side here. I made it clear that I wanted them to have found a solution.