MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[bluespur]

Joe = yes agree their format change was not helpful.

[promax]

well it's been a month since the last post did someone put the wheels back on?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by promax

well it's been a month since the last post did someone put the wheels back on?

nothing to see here, rally season has started.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

well it's been a month since the last post did someone put the wheels back on?

Must have been you - the last set was stolen after it was parked in Lower Hutt...

[bluespur]

Waiting for the Review document. Sure that will start some discussion

[socram]

Just booked my flight for conference Friday for the H & C Workshop.

Will Tony Roberts get elected this time, or will the usual anti JAFA mob seek to ensure that Auckland and the north still has zero representation?

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by socram

Just booked my flight for conference Friday for the H & C Workshop.

Will Tony Roberts get elected this time, or will the usual anti JAFA mob seek to ensure that Auckland and the north still has zero representation?

What position/s is Tony standing for?

[bluespur]

From what I have heard both VP and Ex, perhaps he does not know what/where he wants to go

Ca,nt see him polling higher than Wayne Christie for VP, who has served an apprenticeship, and should be retained

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by bluespur

From what I have heard both VP and Ex, perhaps he does not know what/where he wants to go

Ca,nt see him polling higher than Wayne Christie for VP, who has served an apprenticeship, and should be retained

Isn't Wayne Christie fervently anti-ST though? And if that is the case why should he be retained, if the purpose of MSNZ is the promotion and governance of ALL forms of motorsport (with wheels anyway)?

If he isn't anti, though, then fair enough.

[bluespur]

Don't know him well enough to answer

But what has that got to do with suitability to serve at national administration level. Am sure that not everyone is "pro" all classes

[sollitt]

Well they certainly should be 'pro' all of the classes. At the end of the day motorsport is promoted by a variety of interest groups and it is the national body's role to assist and enable each and every promotion without fear or favour.
If anyone on the Executive cannot do that, they have no business being there at all.

As for having "served an apprenticeship", a number of past and present members have shown that time spent in office is no justification for their continued presence.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by sollitt

Well they certainly should be 'pro' all of the classes. At the end of the day motorsport is promoted by a variety of interest groups and it is the national body's role to assist and enable each and every promotion without fear or favour.
If anyone on the Executive cannot do that, they have no business being there at all.

As for having "served an apprenticeship", a number of past and present members have shown that time spent in office is no justification for their continued presence.

Amen to that!

[bluespur]

Thought the criteria would be pro Motorsport. To think that everyone on national administration is pro all individual class is pretty niave.

What was being suggested is that if Christie is anti ST then he was not fit for the position, I find that suggestion laughable

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Thought the criteria would be pro Motorsport. To think that everyone on national administration is pro all individual class is pretty niave.

What was being suggested is that if Christie is anti ST then he was not fit for the position, I find that suggestion laughable

I don't know why you would find it laughable, it is a fair point - the exec needs to be fair and impartial, and pro-motorsport which means all classes that may come under their umbrella. If you are anti any class (presuming it is not inherently unsafe or such like) then you should not be standing, as you are not fulfilling your obligations as part of the governing body.

Not sure which barrow you are pushing in particular but you need to have a look at why MSNZ is actually there. Roger H will be able to help you on that one.

[NZSTfan]

With all this going on does anyone know when the ST series is likely to be sanctioned or not?

It seemed full steam ahead for a while, but its gone all quiet again.

Or is this one of the topics for discussion at this next meeting?

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Thought the criteria would be pro Motorsport. To think that everyone on national administration is pro all individual class is pretty niave.

What was being suggested is that if Christie is anti ST then he was not fit for the position, I find that suggestion laughable

Correct on your 1st point and as for the 2nd one, Christie being anti ST as a class of motorsport, not from the discussions I have had with the man.

Let us all remember too that there is one hellava lot more to motorsport in NZ than 24 - 30 cars running in one class of motor racing.

The thing with this coming election is to remember what the role/s actually entail/s. In my opinion Tony Roberts would make a very good member of the executive team but remember he is challenging the two incumbents, Norm Oakley who has the chairmanship of the Rally Commission and David Kirk who has the chairmanship of the Clubsport Commission and maybe the clubs might feel more inclined to support those two as along with their other atributes they are seen to be specialists in these fields. It is not about Auckland or Southland or Otago it is about suitability for a task.

Again and only in my opinion, had Tony stood last year against Crunch Bennett for Vice President he may well have succeeded because they are both seen by many as the voice of Historics and therefore the choice would have been more clear cut

Maybe the time has come not to reduce the size of the exceutive but rather to take the chairmanship of commissions off the VP's so that they can work more in reducing the load on the President and elect Exec members as chaiman of the various commissions.

Its going to be an interesting old time

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Correct on your 1st point and as for the 2nd one, Christie being anti ST as a class of motorsport, not from the discussions I have had with the man.

Let us all remember too that there is one hellava lot more to motorsport in NZ than 24 - 30 cars running in one class of motor racing.

The thing with this coming election is to remember what the role/s actually entail/s. In my opinion Tony Roberts would make a very good member of the executive team but remember he is challenging the two incumbents, Norm Oakley who has the chairmanship of the Rally Commission and David Kirk who has the chairmanship of the Clubsport Commission and maybe the clubs might feel more inclined to support those two as along with their other atributes they are seen to be specialists in these fields. It is not about Auckland or Southland or Otago it is about suitability for a task.

Again and only in my opinion, had Tony stood last year against Crunch Bennett for Vice President he may well have succeeded because they are both seen by many as the voice of Historics and therefore the choice would have been more clear cut

Maybe the time has come not to reduce the size of the exceutive but rather to take the chairmanship of commissions off the VP's so that they can work more in reducing the load on the President and elect Exec members as chaiman of the various commissions.

Its going to be an interesting old time

Sensible post, cheers.

[sollitt]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Thought the criteria would be pro Motorsport. To think that everyone on national administration is pro all individual class is pretty niave.

What was being suggested is that if Christie is anti ST then he was not fit for the position, I find that suggestion laughable

Fair point. We were probably being a little too general in earlier comments.

Everyone is free to harbour whatever opinions they may have in respect of categories, or anything else. Certainly there is much around rallying that I both agree, and disagree, with.

But once you've made your stand, the decision's been made, permits issued and a promotion underway, your role as an administrator is to put your personal belief aside and facilitate, as best as possible, the success of that promotion.

Anyone using their position (paid or volunteer) to put the skids under a promotion is not fit hold such a post.

[bluespur]

Seem to have stirred up things. Not my intention as it happens I agree with the majority of comments.

Perhaps the comment on Christies suitability was too general and I reacted to it.

As Southern Man points out there is more to the sport than an expensive elite category of 20+ cars that from their creator would be happy to play close to Auckland.

Idea to keep VP away from Commission Chairmanship has some value as I get impression that our President could do with support from both his VPs

[sollitt]

Carl, it is always a battle to depose a sitting member. But the Commission chairmanships are a red herring.
No one is elected to these roles, they are appointed by the President and there is never a guarantee that the incumbents will retain them.

I think that the whole of motorsport, today more than ever before, recognises that we need a mix of sporting, business and statesmanlike people in these Executive roles to see us through the challenges ahead.
It's no longer enough to have organised the Otautau PTA sausage sizzle for the last 20 years.

I'm sure that Tony will get strong support.

[Alpina107]

Originally Posted by sollitt

Well they certainly should be 'pro' all of the classes.

It's probably not a case of them having to be 'pro' all classes (and types) of motorsport - quite simply, they just shouldn't be ANTI anything, except for the obvious reasons, such as safety. And that's exactly why the governing body should not be directly involved in the commercial aspects, such as promoting (financially supporting) a class against another one being organised outside of MNZ.

Originally Posted by sollitt

As for having "served an apprenticeship", a number of past and present members have shown that time spent in office is no justification for their continued presence.

Can't argue with that!

[RogerH]

MSNZ Executives are bound by the obligations contained in the MSNZ Constitution. The Constitution makes it clear that MSNZ must act in an impartial manner for the good of the sport in general.

There is no room for bias in any form - either being unfairly pro or unfairly anti a particular class, group or segment of the sport. There has been criticism of MSNZ that they have acted contrary to the Constitution in this regard - the ill-founded use of members funds ($57,500) to acquire the TLX "intellectual property" being an example.

[Swedish Brick]

Ah but then you have to define what "for the good" means.
Wouldn't be hard to find many that agree getting rid of class X is a good thing

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Ah but then you have to define what "for the good" means.
Wouldn't be hard to find many that agree getting rid of class X is a good thing

I don't agree with that at all. How can getting rid of any class be a god thing? Unless there are only half a dozen or so competitors and it's heading south anyway, the BMW Minis, GT3 Porsches and Bridgestone Porsches have all gone that way although I don't really know why as there were reasonable numbers in them.

If you are talking about something like ST, into which a huge number of teams and drivers have sunk big money into, apart from getting your jollies off a personal vendetta I can't see how that would be of beneft to the sport at all. But you are probably not meaning that anyway.

[socram]

I would like to think that somehow or other someone on the executive, had an in depth knowledge of grass roots and club motorsport, right through to ST motorsport, in this area, lived in the area, competed in the area, with a business background, particularly as there are more licence holders in the Greater Auckland/Waikato/Northland area, than anywhere else in the country.

Having known Tony since I first arrived in NZ, 30 years ago, when he was racing an Alfa GTV, then the Corvette, later the McLarens and the Talon, before repurchasing the Corvette, plus the rebirth of F5000 worldwide had a lot to do with NZ and Tony and Chris Watson, I can't think of a better candidate.

The very fact that HD got off the ground at all, is due to Tony & Chris and the late Geoff Manning. The annual HD Festivals have been a huge success with Tony part of the organising team. If that isn't a solid enough background to represent the sport at a senior level, I really don't know what is.

However, the voting system, sadly, is not driven by active licence holders and officials who generally have a pretty good idea of the personnel involved and what they have contributed - or more to the point, could contribute.