Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 Feb 2019, 00:34 (Ref:3882164)   #211
GregUK
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 184
GregUK should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
https://youtu.be/x5GN6P3IzTc

You can see the Bentley wheel in this video.
GregUK is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2019, 10:48 (Ref:3882205)   #212
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 12,327
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
I'm not an engineer but I guess kill s. should be pressed for 4-5 seconds to stop ignition
Electric / electronic kill switches are usually instantaneous. Should turn off battery power to everything, hence Ďkillí rather than Ďoffí! A similar button will be on the outside of the car for marshals to activate if required, in the event of a crash......
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2019, 11:13 (Ref:3882209)   #213
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 12,327
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregUK View Post
You can see the Bentley wheel in this video.
Thanks! The switch is (in my opinion) very vulnerable. Iíd like it a bit further away from the pit lane limiter and where thumbs naturally rest....Interesting that itís marked ĎStopí rather than ĎKillí, so maybe just connected to ignition and fuel supply?

The important thing is to make sure that the same situation never re-occurs....
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2019, 11:20 (Ref:3882211)   #214
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 732
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Electric / electronic kill switches are usually instantaneous. Should turn off battery power to everything, hence ‘kill’ rather than ‘off’! A similar button will be on the outside of the car for marshals to activate if required, in the event of a crash......

I see, thanks for the explanation,
anyway to place a so dangerous switch 0.5cm next to other buttons.... not the wisest move. I'm not talking just about bentley.... many other cars use to


991 RSR s. wheel, guess like 488 it has remappable settings, but anyway not the best place for a kill switch, considering also there is a side dashboard with 20 functions nearby....





let's say that for ergonomic and functionality reasons, a kill switch should be placed as far as possible from left/right thumb IMHO
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2019, 11:27 (Ref:3882213)   #215
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 732
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just checked huracan gt3 s.wheel lol






if driver hasn't his eyes on wheel and is entering pit-lane, risk to push the kill switch instead of rpm limiter is not so unlikely
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 11:21 (Ref:3882362)   #216
Maggo
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Germany
Posts: 48
Maggo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
cadillac dpi has kill close to TC selector


I'm not an engineer but I guess kill s. should be pressed for 4-5 seconds to stop ignition
That wheel looks f...ugly with the tape
Maggo is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 13:21 (Ref:3882395)   #217
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,536
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
let's say that for ergonomic and functionality reasons, a kill switch should be placed as far as possible from left/right thumb IMHO
I build control room software and simulations for oil rigs. I've seen some crazy ergonomic nonsense at times, but not like these wheel switches. The oil rig equivalent of a kill switch is called a TPS (Total Platform Shutdown). It kills everything from wells all the way to export lines, generators, shoves the gas up the flare. The only thing that stays running is a UPS for essential 'life support' systems. You'd never dream having the TPS button in a place it could accidentally be hit. A software TPS button would require a confirmation, whilst a hardware one would be a double action (lift and push).

I don't understand these steering wheels, and having now seen the Bentley one, I'm amazed this isn't more common.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 15:09 (Ref:3882414)   #218
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 732
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I build control room software and simulations for oil rigs. I've seen some crazy ergonomic nonsense at times, but not like these wheel switches. The oil rig equivalent of a kill switch is called a TPS (Total Platform Shutdown). It kills everything from wells all the way to export lines, generators, shoves the gas up the flare. The only thing that stays running is a UPS for essential 'life support' systems. You'd never dream having the TPS button in a place it could accidentally be hit. A software TPS button would require a confirmation, whilst a hardware one would be a double action (lift and push).

I don't understand these steering wheels, and having now seen the Bentley one, I'm amazed this isn't more common.
yeah, that's why is wierd to me that a k.switch on a gt3 doesn't require to be pushed for 4-5 seconds to be triggered. You can accidentally hit it and nothing happens but if you push it for seconds it's because you want to push it or really you don't know what you're doing.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 17:17 (Ref:3882456)   #219
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 12,327
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
ĎKillí switch / button by normal motor sport definition needs to be instantaneous. Itís a regulated safety requirement, same as a fire extinguisher activation button.

ĎStopí suggests a switch is for cutting off ignition and fuel supply, and itís possible thatís what one or more of those steering wheel switches are. All thatís needed is a location away from the pit lane speed limiter!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 17:49 (Ref:3882466)   #220
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,536
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yeah, I understand the instantaneous bit. Again, to use an oil rig example, the TPS is does require a very purposeful action (you cannot accidentally do it), but once you activate it, there is no wait time. The generators are off, the valves will close, the blowdown valves will open, and all of your gas is going up the flare to be burnt off.

The 919 system looks good. It's very hard to accidentally push, but very easy to activate on purpose. If a 2 action system is not allowed, then that's what I'd design my buttons to be like.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2019, 18:18 (Ref:3882474)   #221
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 12,327
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
It would also be awkward for a driver to hold a button down for 4-5 seconds while undoing belts, disconnecting radio and drink supply, and attempting the fastest driver change of all time during a pit stop. And donít suggest itís held down as the car enters the pit lane....

Think thatís exhausted my input on Bentley buttons.....
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 10 Feb 2019, 18:14 (Ref:3882995)   #222
Greem
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Greem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United Kingdom
Posts: 3,008
Greem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGreem will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Yeah, I understand the instantaneous bit. Again, to use an oil rig example, the TPS is does require a very purposeful action (you cannot accidentally do it), but once you activate it, there is no wait time. The generators are off, the valves will close, the blowdown valves will open, and all of your gas is going up the flare to be burnt off.

The 919 system looks good. It's very hard to accidentally push, but very easy to activate on purpose. If a 2 action system is not allowed, then that's what I'd design my buttons to be like.
Shrouded button FTW in so many cases. I showed the Mrs - who is a practicing ergonomist - some of the steering wheel photos and she cringed.

As an aside, and linked to Akrapovic's profession, more years ago than I care to remember* I worked on a chemical plant as a trainee chemical engineer prior to going to University. One bit of the plant was a continuous furnace operation making carbon disulphide & hydrogen sulphide (so pretty noxious and toxic materials) from boiling sulphur and high pressure natural gas. Our various control room shutdown buttons were big, bright red, well signed, in cages to avoid shoulder-presses & had a two-stage operation - and were similarly instantaneous, shutting off all feeds and dumping nitrogen (and more natural gas, counter-intuitively) through the system to push everything up a flare stack.

The fire alarm was linked to it, too, which I had the misfortune to activate when a fitter set fire to a sump under a storage tank while doing some grinding. The two-stage bit in that case was me thinking "do I automatically shut the plant down costing two days production? Hell yes!" before hitting the break glass...

*that was pretty much bang on 30 years ago. Lordy.
Greem is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Feb 2019, 19:58 (Ref:3883038)   #223
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,536
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I find this sort of stuff especially fascinating. The 919 certainly appears the best thought out. The R10 is interesting



The only shrouded buttons on it are PIT and MAP. MAP will be engine mapping, so fair enough. PIT being protected is interesting. The kill switch doesn't appear on the wheel at all, but it does have an emergency button - presumably just an alarm back to the pits. But that isn't protected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greem View Post
The fire alarm was linked to it, too, which I had the misfortune to activate when a fitter set fire to a sump under a storage tank while doing some grinding. The two-stage bit in that case was me thinking "do I automatically shut the plant down costing two days production? Hell yes!" before hitting the break glass...
There is an amazing amount of complexity in these sort of systems, and often it does produce this weird sort of contradiction that you faced. In your case, a blowdown is a two-stage action to activate it, yet it can also be activated by a break-glass call point - something very vulnerable to accidental impacts!

It is thought that the Buncefield Explosion was caused by the Control Room Operator shutting down the plant, as he is meant to do. The leak had already happened, and when he noticed he shutdown the plant. The shutdown started a fire pump, which they suspect was the ignition source.

Kill/ESD/TPS systems are a lot more complex than just killing the power and hoping for the best
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 13:52 (Ref:3890443)   #224
NaBUru38
Veteran
 
NaBUru38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Uruguay
Las Canteras, Uruguay
Posts: 8,028
NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
2019 Blancpain GT Series Endurance Cup
  • #107 M-Sport - Andy Soucek / Maxime Soulet / TBA
  • #108 M-Sport - Steven Kane / Jules Gounon / Jordan Pepper
  • Team Parker Racing - Pro-Am Cup
No entries in the 2019 Blancpain GT World Challenge Europe.
NaBUru38 is offline  
__________________
"Show me a driver who didnít make a handful of errors this year, and Iíll show you someone who wasnít trying hard enough." - David Malsher
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo's coming back? SennaTheGreat Formula One 24 19 Nov 2006 19:49
When are you coming back John? Cheryl BandQ WTCC & European Touring Car Series 6 27 Jul 2001 13:54
Are Porsche coming back ??? marcus Sportscar & GT Racing 7 18 Aug 2000 20:27
ZANARDI'S COMING BACK !!! Robin Plummer ChampCar World Series 13 20 Jul 2000 12:21


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.