F5000 at HSCC

[snetmarshal]

What a stunning sight and awsome sound they made, 19 F5000 cars at Brands, in fact a certain "respected" marshal mr S Green, got a bit too excited by all of them.........

Great racing by the guys and the sound.... a great HSCC meeting both days Can am McLarens aswell in the meeting

[Mal]

I was there yersterday and it was a great day once the weather cleared. The final few laps in the Group C race were fantastic!

[allenbrown]

The weather cleared!?! What time did that happen? After I gave up and left, presumably

[Stephen Green]

Indeed it was a fantastic day yesterday (if you forget the weather). 19 F5000's more than I ever remember seeing when they raced originally at Brands Hatch. As for the Can Am's, IMSA and Group C cars.......paradise!

Thats to Snetmarshal and Ian Pitt for their help and friendship on post 22 yesterday. It made the day even more enjoyable.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The weather cleared!?! What time did that happen? After I gave up and left, presumably

It largely cleared just before the Group C race and there was only a few spots of rain after that.

We were on the point of giving up when the rain stopped

[PaulSands]

Have to admit they gave me a moist feeling...oh no wait hang on that was cos I was so blooming wet from the rain and spray
They sounded great and the Brands GP circuit was absolutely what they were made for
I had to give taking shots after the FF1600 race cos my gear was absolutely soaked and I didnt want to risk permanent damage

[John Turner]

Yes, fabulous meeting, great sights and sounds but a real shame about the weather both days. I'm just about dry now.

One contentious point. The grid of 19 F5000 (plus the others) was indeed superb, but frankly, there was one driver in an F5000 car who was a danger to self and others, particularly during the wet qualifying. To describe this car as a mobile chicane is probably an understatement. I don't understand how someone so clearly intimidated by its power and performance would climb into such car and I'm even more perplexed to understand why that person would be allowed to race. There must be some rules that govern this; the car ran throughout the whole race and wasn't (I believe) even classified when the winner, Simon Hadfield (terrific drive) had completed 13 laps!

Perhaps, I shouldn't have raised this publicly, but it seems to me an issue that should be addressed somewhere. I understand that the same driver 'performed' similarly at Croft earlier in the season, albeit in a different car (but also an F5000), so it has been noted before. If the moderator feels that this is an inappropriate posting here, please either delete it or make it a new thread.

On a more positive note, it was great to see the New Zealanders over here in such numbers and giving a good account of themselves. Their presence practically doubled the F5000 field and allowed us to see a number of cars which we had not seen before, so much appreciative thanks to them for bringing these cars so far across the World and showing them off.

[Elio]

John, as a spectator I have to say I agree with you about the said driver. Having watched them compete over the last few seasons I`ve always thought it very dangerous. I accept that they are probably well aware of their lack of competitiveness and (as far as I`ve seen) usually do a very good job of getting out of the way.

That said, that qualifying session yesterday morning must`ve been extremely dodgy out the back on the GP circuit due to the spray. Had a group of drivers come across such a slow competitor in the gloom and the spray and a serious accident had occurred we`d definately all be asking ourselves now why on earth they had been allowed to compete.....

All in all a great meeting though. I quite enjoyed the dampness - made a nice change! Cracking picture Paul... If you were the snapper on the exit of Druids about 10 minutes before the start of the Formula Ford Qually on Sunday morning then I was the sad fellow who trudged past in an anorak with my camera waterproofed in a plastic bag! That batch of F5000 shots on your website taken at Pilgrims drop really do portay the conditions very well!

[Andrew Kitson]

We know who you mean John, but as you say, to be over a minute slower than the pole time and a best race lap 34secs slower than the fastest lap is perhaps a little dangerous with such powerful fast cars at the front. But as a positive we have to thank said driver for helping put together the package to get the cars and drivers here from down under. Far more dangerous was, by the sound of it, the 'mechanic riding' incident in testing at Brands as discussed in the national and international single seater forum!

[PaulSands]

That was me Elio...I'm getting me one of those bags....and one for my camera too
In truth after the harsh sun of recent weeks I was quite glad for the rain too...I just hadn't really encountered the amount of spray in the air like that before...I still thoroughly enjoyed it and now know I need to prepare a little better fot those more "inclement" days

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Elio

John, as a spectator I have to say I agree with you about the said driver. Having watched them compete over the last few seasons I`ve always thought it very dangerous. I accept that they are probably well aware of their lack of competitiveness and (as far as I`ve seen) usually do a very good job of getting out of the way.

That said, that qualifying session yesterday morning must`ve been extremely dodgy out the back on the GP circuit due to the spray. Had a group of drivers come across such a slow competitor in the gloom and the spray and a serious accident had occurred we`d definately all be asking ourselves now why on earth they had been allowed to compete.....

All in all a great meeting though. I quite enjoyed the dampness - made a nice change! Cracking picture Paul... If you were the snapper on the exit of Druids about 10 minutes before the start of the Formula Ford Qually on Sunday morning then I was the sad fellow who trudged past in an anorak with my camera waterproofed in a plastic bag! That batch of F5000 shots on your website taken at Pilgrims drop really do portay the conditions very well!

Agreed, I'm sure that driver is aware of being uncompetitive and I also agree that the said driver kept well out of the way, but I'm not sure that's the point. This was a (fast) race and since the driver concerned was no more than 'touring' around, could hardly be considered as a part of the race. Apart from the danger, what pleasure can there be in that, and watching the rest of the field stream passed every 2 to 3 laps?

In your second paragraph, Elio, you echo precisely the comments made by KRT917 (who was with me and reporting for the FF1600.co.uk website). At one point we were very alarmed when a number of cars were entering Paddock Hill Bend in a wall of spray, passing inside the car in question. Had one of those following cars gone to the outside, unsighted, the closing speeds were so high that a launch over the first would have been unavoidable.

I'm afraid there were times when the rain was so intense that it did dampen my enthusiasm. KRT and I watched the FF1600 (the wettest?) race from Clark Curve and I think we were probably the only people (mugs?) standing there at the time; a more bedraggled pair would be hard to find. He gave up trying to take notes after about lap 2!

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

We know who you mean John, but as you say, to be over a minute slower than the pole time and a best race lap 34secs slower than the fastest lap is perhaps a little dangerous with such powerful fast cars at the front. But as a positive we have to thank said driver for helping put together the package to get the cars and drivers here from down under. Far more dangerous was, by the sound of it, the 'mechanic riding' incident in testing at Brands as discussed in the national and international single seater forum!

Andrew, thanks, I figured that there would be a reason and it was certainly great to see such a package put together. However, I'm not sure sentiment has a place for allowing such a disparity of driving skill in a field of this calibre and performance.

I'll take a look the 'mechanic riding' incident which I had not heard of. However, I was in the paddock when another incident occurred which led to comment. One very well known driver dropped his clutch at high revs (in the wet remember) and spun his wheels, quite intentionally, when all around were competitors and spectators milling about, and did what effectively, I guess in motor cycle terms is called a 'wheelie'. As one of the other observing competitors said and I won't quote him verbatim (for obvious reasons!), this was a pretty stupid thing to do, since a momentary bite could have sent the car into people and machinery close by!

Anyway enough of the downside, it was a great meeting. Incidentally, Andrew, I was able to purchase a copy of 'Nowhere to Hide' by Paul Lawrence, with your artwork on the front cover, from Chaters Brands Hatch shop on the Saturday, for £9.99 - excellent value!

[Stephen Green]

I'm afraid I have to echo the views of those who feel it was unsafe for the driver to be on track, expecially in poor conditions.

If the person concerned was one of those responsible for getting the NZ guys over and for producing such a fabulous field, then they are to be congratulated in every way possible. However, that shouldn't be confused with the safety aspect of motorsport and the drivers lack of speed in not only wet but dry conditions.

We should also remember that the cars in question are many years old and therefore not subject to the same safety conditions that apply to todays racing cars.

[Dan Rear]

I wasn't there but can guess at the driver in question, as I witnessed, I think, the person concerned at the Gold Cup last year. Agree with all comments made, if the person, or a close relative, wishes to drive one of these superb old cars, surely there's a more suitable method of involvement that doesn't involve being on the track when others are racing.

As someone else has said, the consequences of an accident due to 'speed differentials' are too dreadful to contemplate...

[Andrew Kitson]

So are we all going to Silverstone then to see the next installment?
If only they could put the old Woodcote back, but should still be a stunning weekend
Fond memories of the 1973 F5000 supporting race to the International Trophy, with the Hogan Racing Lola T330s of Hobbs and Lunger demolishing the F1 and outright lap record by 0.8 secs. (at least until the following day when Ronnie beat it again, lowering it another 0.5 sec, sideways in his JPS Lotus 72).

[MikeHoyer]

Originally Posted by PaulSands

Have to admit they gave me a moist feeling...oh no wait hang on that was cos I was so blooming wet from the rain and spray
They sounded great and the Brands GP circuit was absolutely what they were made for
I had to give taking shots after the FF1600 race cos my gear was absolutely soaked and I didnt want to risk permanent damage

Great picture Paul, I've got one just like it I think. The whole program at Brands was superb on Sunday, but the F5000's all going through Paddock Hill bend on the first lap was a sight and sound to behold... my dad was kicking himself that he didn't come along!

I know what you mean about gear getting wet though, my camera start playing up during the FFord race, so I put it away for a bit to dry out, fortunately it's fine now!

[PaulSands]

Wasnt just the camera got soaked I imagine looking at your lack of coat
I think you being behind the fence this weekend probably saved you from a lot of the spray

As for next weekend I'm definitely there on the Sunday maybe Saturday too...isn't there a Lotus 72 entered in the James Hunt Trophy?

[Andrew Kitson]

Yes, the very same Peterson Lotus chassis 72/6 I think, now owned by Alistair Morrison.

[MikeHoyer]

Originally Posted by PaulSands

Wasnt just the camera got soaked I imagine looking at your lack of coat
I think you being behind the fence this weekend probably saved you from a lot of the spray

Not too worried about myself, it's only a bit of water , it's the camera I'm concerned about. Plus I thought I had a coat in my car... but I didn't!

Will definitely take one to Spa this weekend though

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

So are we all going to Silverstone then to see the next installment?
If only they could put the old Woodcote back, but should still be a stunning weekend

I'd dearly love to go next weekend, but I've been to race meetings the last 3 weekends and two of those were double headers so I think I need to give my wallet a rest.

Agree totally about the old Woodcote which you might find slightly amusing given my postings on several threads over safety issues recently.

[Elio]

Mr Hoyer - you were`nt the chap in the green Le Mans T-shirt by any chance were you!?!?

[MikeHoyer]

Yes, the damp one

[allenbrown]

Talking about "said driver", I commented to Simon Hadfield that he had lapped "said driver" twice in one lap during practice. "Said driver" was keeping out of the way quite well and is obviously perfectly capable of handling such a car while also being aware of other drivers approaching fast from the rear. If "said driver" has the resources to be able to enjoy driving a F5000 then so be it, but I don't think that a wet practice was the right time to do that. Even at that slow speed, "said driver"'s car was throwing up a lot of spray and if someone had chosen to duck out of another driver's spray just as that car was passing "said driver", we could have had a very bad accident. My feeling was that we were lucky to get away with it. It is to the credit of every driver out there that the session was conducted so safely.

Allen

[johnh875]

Wow 19 F5000s, a shame the conditions were so bad - mind you in a F5000 I'm sure the conditions are always bad! Is there anywhere I could find the race results?

I saw a race at Sandown a couple of years ago with 15 cars, similarly including a lot of NZ cars, what a fantastic category! One of the display boards in the pits (we are lucky enough to have access to the garages) said it all - "driving a F5000 is like trying to throw a hammer handle first"

[Ian Sowman]

http://www.msttiming.com/result.asp?...d=brandsgp.gif for the results

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Talking about "said driver", I commented to Simon Hadfield that he had lapped "said driver" twice in one lap during practice. "Said driver" was keeping out of the way quite well and is obviously perfectly capable of handling such a car while also being aware of other drivers approaching fast from the rear. If "said driver" has the resources to be able to enjoy driving a F5000 then so be it, but I don't think that a wet practice was the right time to do that. Even at that slow speed, "said driver"'s car was throwing up a lot of spray and if someone had chosen to duck out of another driver's spray just as that car was passing "said driver", we could have had a very bad accident. My feeling was that we were lucky to get away with it. It is to the credit of every driver out there that the session was conducted so safely. Allen

Well, I have a huge amount of respect for Simon Hadfield but whilst I would agree with most of what is said above, the 'said' driver was clearly not capable of handling such a car; certainly not in a race, anyway. To put it in perspective, this car, unclassified in its own race, had a race average which would have placed it 24th in the Formula Junior race, with a best lap that was 19seconds slower than the best lap of the winner of that Formula Junior race! I would challenge the right of anyone with adequate resources to race cars with that level of performance disparity. There just has to be a safety issue here. I would have thought that if said person really does enjoy sitting in the car (but clearly and certainly does not remotely enjoy its performance potential), then a sprint and/or hillclimb venue would be a more appropriate setting.

I agree totally with your view about credit to all the other drivers, but frankly why should they have to accommodate this extra hazard, particularly, as you have pointed out, in the wet.