Group A BMW 635 CSi - a popular, solid performer

[chunterer]

For most touring car fans this particular model is arguably the most synonymous car associated with Group A touring car racing.

Our historians will be able to tell us how many races/titles the car won around the world ( a lot!) but its style, grace, performance and sound certainly made it one of the most popular cars of its 'genre' in the mid 80's.

This is an open thread and posts are encouraged on particular cars, teams, drivers and incidents.

If i was to think of this model several things spring instantly to mind:

1/ James Weaver, Trimoco BTCC, tailhappy, Silverstone 'trench'

2/ The Schnitzer 'skeleton' BMW Original Teile livery

3/ Eggenberger's excellent efforts running BMW Italia's entries for the likes of Gianfranco Brancatelli.

4/ The Frank Gardner run superb sinister looking JPS Australian entries.

5/ About 15 of them entered for Spa 24 hours races!

6/ A quite remarkable work over of the car by Charlie Lamn's boys to make it competitive again for it's ETC swansong in 1986.

Over to you....

[cavvy]

I understand a Jeremy Walton book claims there were 50 x GrA factory cars. My attempts to get this book have failed - can anyone shed some light on this?
Web site?

The Bob Jane car (my description) was 2nd at Spa, and at Bathurst & 2nd at Fuji - one other outing I know of was driven by Gerhard Berger at the 1st Adelaide F1 GP meet where it ended up in a gravel trap after ex - Bob Jane team driver John Harvey (in a Holden) punted him off the track.

The car remains to this day as it was raced.

PS Harveys explanation of punt/incident was 'who do you think you are, a F1 driver' ......nudge !!*#?

[John Turner]

cavvy, I have the book; what do you particularly wish to know? (I'm away for a couple days but will have a look upon my return).

It will come as no surprise that these cars are one of my favourites of that period. Lucky for the other manufacturers that as the 6 series was getting a bit long on the tooth, BMW decided not to homologate the 'M' version!

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by John Turner

cavvy, I have the book; what do you particularly wish to know? (I'm away for a couple days but will have a look upon my return).

It will come as no surprise that these cars are one of my favourites of that period. Lucky for the other manufacturers that as the 6 series was getting a bit long on the tooth, BMW decided not to homologate the 'M' version!

Thanks John.

Were there 50 cars built by the factory or Schnitzer - are they numbered - what is the numbering?
Were GrA 635s built by others in Europe or did they come from
the 'original 50'?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Were there 50 cars built by the factory or Schnitzer - are they numbered - what is the numbering? Were GrA 635s built by others in Europe or did they come from the 'original 50'?

In his book, Jeremy Walton says 'More than 50 Group A BMW 635s were assembled and released by BMW Motorsport, most to non-factory teams.'

At the back of the book he explains the numbering sequences. The first was the works prototype E24 AAA-01 which went to Cheylesmore BMW for Hans Stuck to drive in the BTCC. Then he lists E24 RA2-01, but that maybe a printing error since it is out of sequence (maybe it should read E24 RA1-01). Thereafter, he lists E24 RA1-02 to E24 RA1-25 as the 1983 produced cars and E24 RA2-26 to E24 RA2-49 for 1984. All the intervening nos. were allocated but there were 4 numbers where he was unable to identify the client, and they were RA1-24, RA2-27, RA2-32 & RA2-49.

[chunterer]

Wow, 50 chassis built?

That's some serious race metal shifting!

Compare that with say 6/7 XJS's, 20 odd Vitesses and the odd non Sierra Turbo car prior to the almost one make RS Cosworth/M3 era and this gives us some idea of how seriously BMW Motorsport took the Group A formula at the time.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

For most touring car fans this particular model is arguably the most synonymous car associated with Group A touring car racing.

Our historians will be able to tell us how many races/titles the car won around the world ( a lot!) but its style, grace, performance and sound certainly made it one of the most popular cars of its 'genre' in the mid 80's.

This is an open thread and posts are encouraged on particular cars, teams, drivers and incidents.

If i was to think of this model several things spring instantly to mind:

1/ James Weaver, Trimoco BTCC, tailhappy, Silverstone 'trench'

2/ The Schnitzer 'skeleton' BMW Original Teile livery

3/ Eggenberger's excellent efforts running BMW Italia's entries for the likes of Gianfranco Brancatelli.

4/ The Frank Gardner run superb sinister looking JPS Australian entries.

5/ About 15 of them entered for Spa 24 hours races!

6/ A quite remarkable work over of the car by Charlie Lamn's boys to make it competitive again for it's ETC swansong in 1986.

Over to you....

I'd agree with most of these suggestions, but would add my most memorable (er) memory is also James Weaver in the Trimoco series, not at Silverstone, but Brands Hatch, Paddock Bend: Totally committed, sideways all the way down the hill, with smoke pouring off the rear tyres! Fantastic...

[jonners]

I just loved those cars...

Brands Hatch Grand Prix meeting 1984 I think - watching Weaver and Sytner in practice just nailing it through Paddock right on the edge...I'm getting goose bumps remembering it - it was a fabulous sight...

...and the beautiful noise they made...

And when they saloons were lining up on the hill in the paddock before their race (ready to go through the tunnel) a number of the drivers were wearing caps with what looked like fox tails attached - always wondered what that was about...

Tourist Trophy Silverstone 1987 or maybe '86 - just before the M3 'took over' - zillions of 635's from the Continent with lovely unfamiliar paint jobs - each and every one of them looked and sounded fantastic

Different era, different cars, different tracks - I'm not going to knock modern saloons but in those days it was difficult not to fall in love with the machinery...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by jonners

I just loved those cars...

Brands Hatch Grand Prix meeting 1984 I think - watching Weaver and Sytner in practice just nailing it through Paddock right on the edge...I'm getting goose bumps remembering it - it was a fabulous sight...

...and the beautiful noise they made...

And when they saloons were lining up on the hill in the paddock before their race (ready to go through the tunnel) a number of the drivers were wearing caps with what looked like fox tails attached - always wondered what that was about...

Tourist Trophy Silverstone 1987 or maybe '86 - just before the M3 'took over' - zillions of 635's from the Continent with lovely unfamiliar paint jobs - each and every one of them looked and sounded fantastic

Different era, different cars, different tracks - I'm not going to knock modern saloons but in those days it was difficult not to fall in love with the machinery...

Yes! The sound of that engine, fantastic wasn't it?

Dear me I'm having a nostalgia overload, I'd better go and do something distracting...

[ian beckett]

Hi! I would agree with everything being said to the extent that I tried to keep tabs on the history and race records of every car that raced.Some had as many as six different owners and became very difficult to trace.They raced in all the worlds major touring car series although they did not win many championships because of the class structures at the time plus they had some pretty strong opposition. I wonder if anyone out there has pictures of some of the rarer cars which maybe did not feature too well in races and therefore never made the 'comics'.I would be willing to help if anyone has a query about a particular car or race. Ian Beckett.

[I16]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yes! The sound of that engine, fantastic wasn't it?

Sorry to go OT but I was so taken by their circuit stance and sound I went out and bought a second hand white 635CSI in 1987. I had so much fun in that car, with it's 'tired' mufflers - it sounded just like a race car.

[chunterer]

Ian, go on give us a few examples of the lesser known cars it'll be fascinating!

How about Peter Buxtorf's 1988 BTCC mount..was that the ex Cheylesmore/Grundig car? that was driven first by Stuck/Palmer then Kennedy then I think Barry Barnes had it for a bit....

Crikey I see what you mean about multiple ownerships!

That's why I thought it would be better to have an open free for all on the cars!!

BTW, I16, (and Mr Turner!) I seriously contemplated buying one too but it wouldn't have fitted in my garage!!! They're big cars after all!

I plumped for another of my fav Grp A road versions - an Alfetta GTV6 which I sadly had to offload just before xmas in 2004. (whimper...)

Still, I might get a nice 635 one day though

[David Towe]

I had the very great pleasure of owning the ex JPS Team 635 that won the Australian Touring Car Champiopnship for a while and loved it. The wife unfortunately hated it and in order to keep her off my back and keep the JPS Team M3, I sold the 635.
We only took it to a couple of meetings but the crowd was always drawn to it. Fathers could be heard saying to their children, "I remember when....." or "I saw this thing win at...... when I was your age".
Jim Richards won every race in all 6 rounds of the Amscar series in 1985 in the car, such was it's dominance here. Jim actually rang me recently trying to buy the car back, too late. The car has now gone to a new home where the owner has the money to fully restore it, sadly something I couldn't afford to do.
A true classic in every sense of the word, I feel privelidged to have raced it.

[ian beckett]

I have just spent an hour putting down some of the main points regarding the cars history only to find that when I came to post my reply it said there had been a problem and I find my pearls of wisdom have disappeared into cyberspace!! Perhaps I will find some more time to recall what it was I had to say!! All for now Ian.

[chunterer]

Yes Ian, I had the same thing with my entry post on the Rover SD1 thread a while back - by the time i'd finished writing, the time had expired and I had to log back in!

As a suggestion (and from experience!!) I think it's good to post one or two points at a time and then add more detail as the thead develops.

So, we'll await for some of what you wanted to mention with anticipation

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by David Towe

I had the very great pleasure of owning the ex JPS Team 635 that won the Australian Touring Car Champiopnship for a while and loved it. The wife unfortunately hated it and in order to keep her off my back and keep the JPS Team M3, I sold the 635.
We only took it to a couple of meetings but the crowd was always drawn to it. Fathers could be heard saying to their children, "I remember when....." or "I saw this thing win at...... when I was your age".
Jim Richards won every race in all 6 rounds of the Amscar series in 1985 in the car, such was it's dominance here. Jim actually rang me recently trying to buy the car back, too late. The car has now gone to a new home where the owner has the money to fully restore it, sadly something I couldn't afford to do.
A true classic in every sense of the word, I feel privelidged to have raced it.

Great post Dave

One thing I have always wondered is why you don't tend to see Jim at Historic meetings....I suppose its because his program is a full one. I'm sure you would agree with me that no matter who owns the car it would be absolutely fantastic to see Jim back behind the wheel wringing its neck one more time

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Great post Dave

One thing I have always wondered is why you don't tend to see Jim at Historic meetings....I suppose its because his program is a full one. I'm sure you would agree with me that no matter who owns the car it would be absolutely fantastic to see Jim back behind the wheel wringing its neck one more time

Jim is chasing one of the Mobil M3s that is now in NZ. It was originally built by JPS but never raced in thier colours. The asking price is $120K. I hope he gets it and comes to play with us, I'd love to say I was beaten by "Gentleman Jim".

[ian beckett]

The 635 raced in the national championships of Great Britain ,France,Germany,Belgium,Italy,Scandinavia.Australia,New Zealand and Japan.They had individual race wins but generally were unsuccessful in winning championships.Their main stomping ground was in the European Touring Car series where their reliability and sheer numbers brought much success. The only 'proper' World Touring Car championship in'87 saw the car being largely replaced by the M3,this being a pukka race car rather than the 635 which was essentially an executive cruiser which BMW turned into a successful race car out of neccessity.The 635 also ran in hillclimbs,rallies and even rallycross in France and a couple are still having fun on the Canary Islands even now.In fact both cars are for sale,so come on get those piggy banks open!! The car also had limited success in Group N but again was rather too heavy and underpowered for greater things. The cars also raced in Group 2 trim from 1980 where the cars had deeper air dams and large wheel arches and also ran 'down under' to local regulations before the Group A reg's became the norm the world over.The largest number of 635's in any one race was 22 for the 1984 Monza ETC although it has to be said that the Bulgarian entry(yes really did not appear;it did exist however!).The car was only eclipsed for sheer numbers by the M3 which is another story.People seem surprised by the numbers of cars produced but remember that BMW had a serious competitions department,BMW were growing rapidly into the popular marque that they are today and also that BMW had a long tradition of racing their products.The car was also easy for the privateer to build(I remember a car actually being completed,not repaired in the Donington paddock in 1984,a Bavaria Automobiles car).To a competent mechanic the cars would have been easy to build because BMW Motorsports provided a set of parts rather like an outsized plastic model!!

[ian beckett]

Yes that is the ex-Cheylesmore car I described earlier. Just imagine, the cars first four ever drivers were Stuck/Danner/Hobbs?palmer,not too shabby any of them!

[glyn parham]

Hi Guys.

I have been waiting for Chunterer to start this thread with anticipation.

Here are a couple of photos from the 1984 GP support practice to show just how hard Weaver & Sytner were trying.

James


Frank tried very hard.


And finally, who says the Germans don't have a sense of humour (courtesy Jeff Allam & Gerhard Berger



I loved the sight and sound of these cars and have plenty more photos from my travels to Spa, Zolder and Dijon in the ETCC days, if anyone wants to see some more photos go either to Frank de Jongs site or Racingsportscars, plenty more on show there.

Glyn

[davyboy]

Mike Newman's Burlington one was one of my favourites... was he not the last person to race one in the BTCC ?

Somebody [who wanted to race one and couldn't] once told me that GrpA 635s suffered from cylinder head problems [cracking ??] and that replacements were not cheap... one of the reasons that made the 635 an expensive choice in Grp A. Truth or fiction ?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Mike Newman's Burlington one was one of my favourites... was he not the last person to race one in the BTCC ?

I'm sure he was the last person to race a 635 in the BTCC, I certainly can't remember any more.
Mike's car was one of the ex BMW UK cars, not sure if it was ex-Weaver or Woodman.
The good thing is that he's still got the car, exactly as it finished the 1987 BTCC season and (very) occasionally rolls it out for a practice day. He's not forgotten how to throw it around the track either!

[ian beckett]

Mike Newman ran his ex BMW GB car in the BTCC from 1985 to 1987. He then tried to sell the car and a new team called DBDA Motorsport intended rinning the car in 1988 but the deal fell through. Mike switched to a Cosworth and decided to keep the 635.Peter Buxtorf was the last person to run a 635 in the BTCC during 1988.This was the ex-Cheylesmore car raced by Stuck/Danner/Hobbs/Palmer in'83 which was then used byDavid Kennedy in Grundig colours before being used by Brian Chatfield/Barry Barnes/Barry Robinson.Buxtorf ran the car in black with different coloured shapes applied over the body at each meeting. The car is now back in its original white with Diners Club International logos and last appeared at Brands in 2005 driven by Alex Elliott.

[chunterer]

Nice info Ian

More of the same, as much as you like please!!

Blimey Glyn that shot of Weaver is incredible!! Look at the angle that car is pointing at and the smoke coming off the tyres... did Tony Pond have a one off in that car or something?? look like he's yanked on the handbrake or something!!

[Woolley]

My first ever meeting as a spectator was ETCC Donington in '84. I recently found the photos I took to find about half of them were of the Yellow CiBiEmme cars. Lovely. To my mind it was the perfect Touring Car.