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Old 19 Feb 2004, 23:32 (Ref:879923)   #1
stoned pony
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Air-con in race cars

Press release issued for Sirromet Racing says Paul Morris and his team have developed an air-conditioning init for the Commodore and will use it for the first time in AGP support races.
Morris suggests the air-con will be invaluable at Adelaide and says he will use it for most races this season.
I'm surprised no-one else has thought of this. The slight drop in power (about 6-8bhp?)must surely be overcome by having drivers fresh enough to tackle the later stages of a race.
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Old 19 Feb 2004, 23:48 (Ref:879933)   #2
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Not so much that other teams haven't thought about it, Sirromet appear to be the first team to get it working properly.

SBR have tested air con on their vehicles, but found the cold air expelling from the air con quickly being overcome by the perpetuating heat generated from the engine & drivetrain (glowing through the thin steel of the bodyshell).

So there must be a trick to it somehow. Interestingly GRM use a carbon fibre floor cover in their cars to insulate against the heat of the steel floor, so perhaps it's a combination of both?
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 00:11 (Ref:879945)   #3
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It's not only the heat that's the problem ... some teams really struggled at Bathurst with fumes building up in the cabin causing nausea and headaches for the drivers ... aircon may help disperse some of that buildup.

What's next - sunroofs!
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 00:24 (Ref:879955)   #4
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CD player, power windows, power mirrors, DVD-in-car-movies - great for Bathurst when the kids in the back seat are getting restless after 4 hours of racing....
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 00:41 (Ref:879965)   #5
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Perhaps the idea is to have a very small unit, and feed the cool air straight into the helmet intake, and perhaps an intake to the suit in the chest area for example... then your'e cooling the driver, not attempting to cool the cabin pointlessly. Seems like the way to do it for my money.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 00:55 (Ref:879972)   #6
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It will be interesting to see how the Morris unit works (I'm sure Neil Crompton will give us the lowdown), whether or not it is piping air into the whole cabin space or just the driver.
Still, it has to be better than the cool suits which have a short operational life and way better than George Fury's red terry towelling hat!
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 00:57 (Ref:879973)   #7
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Originally posted by Deano
CD player, power windows, power mirrors, DVD-in-car-movies - great for Bathurst when the kids in the back seat are getting restless after 4 hours of racing....
Some race cars already have power windows...
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 01:04 (Ref:879983)   #8
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For the airconditioning system to be truely effective, the whole cabin, or at least a partial area (if it could be sectioned off somehow - maybe like a Sydney taxi cab???) would have to be cooled down.

The air-con into the driver's suit wouldn't be that much more effective than the current fresh air system, which only cools part of the body. Air-con pumped into the helmet would undoubtably fog up the visor, and if the visor is left up the effect is disipated...

Yes, it will be quite interesting to see the actual set up.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 01:09 (Ref:879987)   #9
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Is the compressor driven by the crank or does it get its drive from a electric motor like the new fangled power steering systems
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 01:18 (Ref:879992)   #10
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Some information is on the Paul Morris web site:

http://www.paulmorris.com.au/home.html

Basically it looks like the air is pumped into the helmet, but this may be in addition to the cabin. It's a fair sized unit though.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 04:01 (Ref:880064)   #11
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The system would have to be powered by a seperate electric motor, they wouldn't want to risk loosing performance just to keep The Dude cool!
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 06:18 (Ref:880112)   #12
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Average Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Or have to turn it off towards the end of an enduro to save the electrics...
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 07:28 (Ref:880125)   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by MHDT
[B]Some information is on the Paul Morris web site:
And doesnt paul look happy about it.... not
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 08:10 (Ref:880149)   #14
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My guess is, the unit will go on under brakes and part throttle where maximum power is not critical, and disengage the moment the foot goes to the floor.

The only critical factor then is the speed of the clutch mechanism.

I don't think the cars would even be the slightest bit slower, and since they already carry ballast to get them up to 1350kg, they wouldn't be any heavier either.

It can only be a good thing. Why wasn't it done sooner? Make it compulsory I reckon - it'll stop them all from *****ing about how hot it is in the car.


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Old 20 Feb 2004, 08:28 (Ref:880156)   #15
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i rember them testinf air con in larry perkins car never heard any more about it. maybe its just like a cool suit blow cold air into the suit.

they only complain about the heat becuase they are gettinbg old and ready for the pension......
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 08:56 (Ref:880187)   #16
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Sorry Brockie has already done it = just not hooked up.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 10:00 (Ref:880236)   #17
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I've always wondered why there couldn't be Air-Conditioning in race cars. Be especially effective in the longer races. Be great to see every team adopt it.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 10:23 (Ref:880249)   #18
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Originally posted by Christopher
I've always wondered why there couldn't be Air-Conditioning in race cars. Be especially effective in the longer races. Be great to see every team adopt it.
Basically, the heat generated from the engine/drivetrain that dissipates into the cabin makes even the strongest air-con work fairly hard for a minimal result.

Hot air rises remember, and there needs to be a huge cool layer of air to press the hot air right down, a difficult objective in a V8 supercar.

Either the driver compartment needs to be isolated and chilled down (similar to a Sydney taxi cabin – might/should just happen); or the whole cabin needs an extra powerful (electrical powered if possible) air-con that may or may not currently exist (doubtful PMM has the full answer just yet).

Anyone living in SE.Qld or Perth should appreciate the need for over-engineering in relation to air-conditioning.

In summary, something like the standard Holden/Ford factory aircon as fitted to production cars wouldn't make much difference...
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 10:26 (Ref:880253)   #19
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Originally posted by vortexo
Sorry Brockie has already done it = just not hooked up.
Brockie instigated power-steering in touring cars as I remember…
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 12:39 (Ref:880363)   #20
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Why not just take away air-con and power steering ? its how they used to do it in the old days and it rewards those drivers who are on strong fitness regimes.

As for aircon, maybe there could be like a dual windscreen mechanism and chassis mechanism where all the heat/hot air from the engine is blown from a fan on the floor near the pedals.. basically the there is a 5cm shell in front of the driver, and above his head that blows the most of the heat out of the car. This coupled with a thick fibreglass floor, and maybe two layers of fibre glass (one for each layer) around the pedal area all the way up to the window.. and you have most of the hot air escaping the car, and the driver left in cool comfort by a air con system at the rear... i think it would be better to have it at the rear so then it will help weight distribution and it doesnt take up further space in the engine bay area..

this is how i would set up air con in a racecar
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 12:53 (Ref:880386)   #21
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The aircon systems were developed in Nascar. They basically pump air into a suit under the drivers race suit and through a pipe in the helmet. As far as I am aware all V8 teams have tested The different styles of aircon units and found them impracticle. What is developed for Nascar on ovals doesnt work on circuits. The dudes unit will be better than nothing but really a waste of time, but hey 10 points for trying. And by the way, cooling just the cabin down when all drivers wear 3 layer race suits, gloves and helmets is going to do what? If the airs not pumped straight onto the driver then whats the point.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 12:59 (Ref:880394)   #22
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Isnt LP's car sponsored by Carrier, I thought his boys were working on a similar air filtration system, although perhaps not cooling, some time ago?
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 13:34 (Ref:880418)   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke Plaizier
My guess is, the unit will go on under brakes and part throttle where maximum power is not critical, and disengage the moment the foot goes to the floor.
SNIP
All WRXs do this as standard, so it should be no big deal for the taxis.
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Old 20 Feb 2004, 21:46 (Ref:880837)   #24
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All WRXs do this as standard, so it should be no big deal for the taxis.
I remember seeing you could buy the vacuum switch to do this once to add this feature to any car.
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Old 21 Feb 2004, 03:34 (Ref:881073)   #25
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Sorry Brockie has already done it = just not hooked up.
Looks like I didn't get a bite (byte) on that one - does anyone remember when Brockie ran a VK Calais (I think) and someone (CAMS) said the Calais ran air-con as standard so the racecar had to do the same - Brockie got all the air-con parts and put them on the back seat.?
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