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Old 31 Aug 2006, 18:55 (Ref:1698731)   #1
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Honda engine gamble

Honda have decided to run their 2007 spec engines in Monza!

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37180
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 19:03 (Ref:1698741)   #2
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Originally Posted by martyn bott
Honda have decided to run their 2007 spec engines in Monza!

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37180
Knowing Honda one engine(probably Barrichellos) is gonna blow up in amazing fashion. I still don't understand why a big company like Honda can't seem to come up with a reliable engine. The BAR days were horrible and they are just starting to get reliable this year. They seem to always have problems with there earlier versions on engines, expect at least one blow up.

No wonder there were against the engine freeze.

In the other hand this season is pretty much over for them, Toyota and BMW ar pretty far behind and Honda will never catch Mclaren. Running there engine early might very well give them an advantage next year.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 19:28 (Ref:1698768)   #3
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maximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmaximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thing is though, when your at the envelope of performance, failures are likely.

Honda aren't the only big company who have had their reliability worries though, look at Mercedies last season!
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:44 (Ref:1698825)   #4
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after testing today, Honda might be lucky if Jensons going to race next week.

Both Rubens and Jenson had problems with there engines resulting in Jenson having a high speed crash. Jenson Walked away but has been complaining of a headache and Nassau.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:49 (Ref:1698828)   #5
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[QUOTE=marzF1rocks]after testing today, Honda might be lucky if Jensons going to race next week.

Both Rubens and Jenson had problems with there engines resulting in Jenson having a high speed crash. Jenson Walked away but has been complaining of a headache and Nassau.[/QUOTE

Nassau? Do you mean nausea or does JB have something against the Bahamas?
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:51 (Ref:1698832)   #6
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Originally Posted by maximus
Thing is though, when your at the envelope of performance, failures are likely.

Honda aren't the only big company who have had their reliability worries though, look at Mercedies last season!
The thing is Mercedes had some good years while honda has never been able to make a reliable package.

Here are there records of engine problems

2000: 7 dnf in 17 races
2001: 6 dnf in 17 races
2002: 15 in 17 races
2003: 10 in 17 races
2004: 6 in 18 races
2005: 6 in 16 races

As you can see the problem is that they never really got any better, ther best result was in 2004 where the powertrains had problems 1/3 of the races, not the best reliability. Just for the record Mercedes had 5 powertrain related problem in 18 races last year, still better then Honda.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:53 (Ref:1698834)   #7
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That was a mighty crash if he ended up in Nassau. Still he could do with a holiday in the Sun.

Apparently something at the left rear may have been the cause, but the team aren't sure as it was damaged in the crash.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 20:57 (Ref:1698839)   #8
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I don't mind if Rubens' engine blows up ... provided it impersonates a hand grenade in style
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 21:30 (Ref:1698867)   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molotov

2000: 7 dnf in 17 races
2001: 6 dnf in 17 races
2002: 15 in 17 races
2003: 10 in 17 races
2004: 6 in 18 races
2005: 6 in 16 races
But the other thing to think about here is performance.

In 2002 and 2003, the engine was a pathetic lump of cast-iron. Overweight, under-powered, dreadful.

For 2004 Honda took a new approach, lightening the engine, going radical and extracting outrageous power. That the reliability also came on in leaps and bounds is remarkable.

I think Honda do alright on the engine front.
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Old 31 Aug 2006, 21:37 (Ref:1698871)   #10
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JohnMiller should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJohnMiller should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nassau is very built up and overly-commercialised. The 'out islands' are much more relaxed.

I think it's valid complaint.
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Old 1 Sep 2006, 13:56 (Ref:1699292)   #11
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i meant the other one, i always put stuff thorugh the spell checker and it must have corrected that one, weird.
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Old 1 Sep 2006, 15:41 (Ref:1699351)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molotov
The thing is Mercedes had some good years while honda has never been able to make a reliable package. Here are there records of engine problems

2000: 7 dnf in 17 races
2001: 6 dnf in 17 races
2002: 15 in 17 races
2003: 10 in 17 races
2004: 6 in 18 races
2005: 6 in 16 races

As you can see the problem is that they never really got any better, ther best result was in 2004 where the powertrains had problems 1/3 of the races, not the best reliability. Just for the record Mercedes had 5 powertrain related problem in 18 races last year, still better then Honda.

Perhaps Mercedes can supply engines to Honda.
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Old 1 Sep 2006, 18:05 (Ref:1699414)   #13
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Question: Has Honda, since being back in F1 ever been a threat for the title? Also, is this a result of engine or drive-train failures?

If the answer is no to these then the complaint or assertion that Honda has bad or horrible motors is invalid. Why?

Well, they realize they need to push the envelope. The time for experimentation and taking chances is not when you are locked in a battle the way Ferrari and Renault are at this point. Its when you are trying to catch up. Unfortunately the only way to simulate race conditions is in the race itself. Honda is not the big propaganda machine that some of the other teams are. They are not afraid of failure. Mr. Honda himself said that 99% is failure.
They are doing what no other team is attempting to do, not even Toyota. They are not just hiring proven people and re branding the work Renault or Toyota, they are innovating on their own and thus are paying the consequences of their approach. As a matter of fact that is partially why GW is not there anymore.
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Old 5 Sep 2006, 19:37 (Ref:1702674)   #14
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Exactly.This is Honda's big chance to steal a march on the others,while they are all embroiled in their own little (or big) battles.If the engine fails in Monza it doesn't matter too much,they can try again in testing.I wonder how far Renault and Ferrari are "pushing the boat out"?
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Old 5 Sep 2006, 19:42 (Ref:1702679)   #15
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It is a gamble but they have little to race for this season now, so why not try them out? I would find it quite funny if they have a lot of problems though.
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Old 6 Sep 2006, 07:47 (Ref:1702962)   #16
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With the engine freeze imminent, they are being smart in getting the latest technology in their 'approved' engines even if that means unreliability. That can be sorted over the closed season without having to necessarily deviate from the basic frozen design.
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