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Old 8 Jul 2020, 09:39 (Ref:3986677)   #426
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Thankfully!

I think it was a much better race because of the safety car, perhaps they should just kick the virtual safety car into touch and be done with it.
Completely disagree.If you want artificial racing where they take away the reward for excellence and prioritise entertainment for people with short attention spans then NASCAR is for you.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 09:41 (Ref:3986678)   #427
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I agree. Sometimes I wonder what the point of the VSC is anymore. It's a great idea, but it's hardly used when needed
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 11:04 (Ref:3986712)   #428
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pure guess, but the lack of vsc may come from a reduced marshalling perspective.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 11:14 (Ref:3986713)   #429
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
pure guess, but the lack of vsc may come from a reduced marshalling perspective.
That would make sense. It seems logical to pull the field together with a full SC to allow the marshals to work easier.

(which means, if it's logical it's not the reason F1 are doing it)
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 11:46 (Ref:3986715)   #430
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I agree. Sometimes I wonder what the point of the VSC is anymore. It's a great idea, but it's hardly used when needed
Me too. Sometimes the so-called safety car spices things up, but only in a completely artificial way. Best left to the Americans.

I really can't see why the "VSC" procedure couldn't be adapted to every situation short of a red flag.
1. For minor incidents like Bottas' off in qually, a localised speed limit in one sector would be sufficient. (Effectively this would be stricter than the current yellow flag rule.)
2. For something where there is a car and/or marshals close to the track edge, the current VSC seem fairly appropriate, perhaps with an absolute speed limit in the vicinity of the incident.
3. Where a car and/or marshals are actually on the track, a low speed limit either locally or for the whole lap. The speed limit might have to appropriate to the location; 100kph would seem dead slow most places but would be meaningless at, say, Rascasse.

There would have to be a no-weaving rule to go along with the speed limits. People would complain about tyres cooling too much, but tough, it's the same for everyone.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 12:42 (Ref:3986725)   #431
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I like the concept of the VSC. When we consider the race officials actions I think we should consider the context. They probably err on the side of caution. Which is fair enough. Especially if bella’s hypothesis is correct. It isn’t that long ago that they came under huge pressure after the Bianchi accident. I don’t think it has seriously been suggested here, but I do not believe that the SC was used to spice things up. Race control has more important things to consider.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 13:37 (Ref:3986737)   #432
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I wonder when Verstappen will get the balance issues fixed this weekend, if he'll dare to try and get to Q3 on the hards?

He'll need to try to do something to beat the Mercedes. If Albon manages 4th this time to give him some cover on lap 1, it would leave a lot of strategy options during the race:

- No safety car: switch to the softs on lap ~45. Have a light car on fresh fast rubber to attack.
- Mid race SC: switch to the mediums, he'll be on fresher and faster rubber. Race win quite likely.
- Post lap 42 SC: switch to softs, chance of race win even more likely.

In general I do wonder why Red Bull don't try the hard tyre option to start on more often. You fall nicely into the gap in front of the midfield, you can then in clean air focus on optimizing lap time vs. tire/fuel consumption and wait out for any safety car opportunity. Once you're on the fresh fast rubber, the speed delta will be such that an overtake will be relatively easy.


Especially on a quite short run up to T1 like at Spielberg, you're less vulnerable to get caught out of the line.

The race just gone was a real chance for either of the Red Bulls to win because of all the safety cars. I would love to see a similarly exciting race next time, but it would take something very unusual to give any non-Mercedes a better chance of winning than the last time.

The potential problem of going with the hard tyre is course is that you end up getting overtaken by others starting on the soft - the Pink Mercedes, McLarens and Renaults all would probably be a real threat in the short term on softs compared with RBR's on the hards. Designating Albon as a rear gunner is an option, but that would ruin his own race (not forgetting that he could have won last time out).

If I were Red Bull, I would try to do exactly the same strategy again - Verstappen on Mediums and Albon on soft. That split strategy gives you options, and it could well have worked for Verstappen last race.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 14:30 (Ref:3986746)   #433
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If I were Red Bull, I would try to do exactly the same strategy again - Verstappen on Mediums and Albon on soft. That split strategy gives you options, and it could well have worked for Verstappen last race.
i dont know why more teams dont opt for the split strategy more so when you are a front running team and it is a little more clear cut that you will make it through Q2.

i suppose they are afraid to pull a Vettel but you have to take chances, particularity chances that, as you say, give you more options in the race. so i very much hope to see RB do this more.

during the broadcast, Horner once again called out their strategy engineer Hannah Schmitz' for another inspired call. i believe she was also the one who made the call that helped Max win in Brazil last year.

say what you will about diversity, but imo more often than not it leads to new and different ways of thinking and F1 needs more of that imo. you are not going to beat Merc by playing the game the same way Merc plays it.

personally im still scratching my head about why Ham didnt pit to cover Albon...perhaps there is a proper reason (no more tires?) but i feel Merc lack the ability to make quick calls combined with an aversion to taking a risk (more shocking given how well their pit crew operates).

real time data analysis may be a weakness and now we have seen, over the last 3 races, RB exploit it twice.

RB also worked the stewards over pretty hard this weekend.

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Old 8 Jul 2020, 14:57 (Ref:3986753)   #434
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i dont know why more teams dont opt for the split strategy more so when you are a front running team and it is a little more clear cut that you will make it through Q2.
I guess they run the numbers and most times it is pretty clear which strategy is best. Then you run both on that strategy to maximise your chances.

It’s not just the use of the quicker tyre to get into Q1. That tyre helps you get to turn 1 quicker too.

Red Bull, especially with Max, are in a position where they can take a punt. They aren’t close enough to naturally win if they go for the same strategy as Merc., but they are sufficiently ahead of the rest that they can try something different to disrupt Merc without risking falling back into the rest
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:00 (Ref:3986756)   #435
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At least they’ve got a chance to use what they’ve learned to good use again
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:03 (Ref:3986760)   #436
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At least they’ve got a chance to use what they’ve learned to good use again
They will be using different compounds at the Styrian GP, which will change things somewhat.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:08 (Ref:3986762)   #437
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during the broadcast, Horner once again called out their strategy engineer Hannah Schmitz' for another inspired call. i believe she was also the one who made the call that helped Max win in Brazil last year.

say what you will about diversity, but imo more often than not it leads to new and different ways of thinking and F1 needs more of that imo. you are not going to beat Merc by playing the game the same way Merc plays it.

One only has to look at the success that Audi had for many years with Leena Gade directing strategy from the pit wall; she was absolutely brilliant.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:10 (Ref:3986764)   #438
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oddly i was just looking at this...looks like they will have the same allotment. maybe something has changed though?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...bkYATXSzG.html

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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:14 (Ref:3986767)   #439
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oddly i was just looking at this...looks like they will have the same allotment. maybe something has changed though?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...bkYATXSzG.html

I stand corrected.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 15:52 (Ref:3986777)   #440
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They will for Britain, looking at that.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 21:01 (Ref:3986849)   #441
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The problem with virtual safety cars is that drivers who already stopped are disadvantaged. So the solution would be to forbid tyre changes during virtual safety cars.
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Old 8 Jul 2020, 22:19 (Ref:3986855)   #442
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The problem with virtual safety cars is that drivers who already stopped are disadvantaged. So the solution would be to forbid tyre changes during virtual safety cars.
Any type of safety car will corrupt the race to some extent.Virtual SC will corrupt it less.
The biggest issue is that cars lose whatever advantage they have built up.Most farcical example.Last year’s Bathurst 1000 where there was 1 lap to end after last restart making the previous 6+ hours largely irrelevant.
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 08:06 (Ref:3986912)   #443
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Yes and you don't waste too many laps under VSC. SC's have gone on for too long, especially with the free pass rule in place
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 10:10 (Ref:3986931)   #444
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SC's have gone on for too long, especially with the free pass rule in place
Indeed.
15 of the 71 laps have been run behind the Safety Car, that is more than 21%.
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 13:51 (Ref:3986973)   #445
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Mugello, Sochi and Algarve look like being announced on the calendar
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 16:23 (Ref:3987010)   #446
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I stand corrected.
On the topic of how teams are approaching this coming weekend - The pessimistic side of me feels the teams that showed promise will hone in on a perfect race weekend with back to back races like this.

So Mercedes will figure out how to run their race better and lead to a more certain Mercedes lock out. Red bull will figure out their stuff and cement both cars as 3 and 4. Upper midfield may tussle among themselves, but I don't see it changing the direction of the championship much. Maybe Racing Point finish ahead of McLaren? The teams that need to try something different won't massively impact the results even if the change worked, because this time all your competitors got that much closer to running the perfect race.

I can't bring myself to wish mechanical issues or other race altering incidents, so this weekend feels a little flat in terms of lead up excitement.
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 17:12 (Ref:3987023)   #447
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Yes and you don't waste too many laps under VSC. SC's have gone on for too long, especially with the free pass rule in place

This really bugs me. Formula 1 is rich enough and smart enough, so there must be a obvious reason I’m missing.

Instead of letting the lap car overtake the pack and safety car, then drive round (we may lose 1 or 2 laps whilst they catch the train again, why can’t they just let the rest of the field overtake them and then add a lap onto their timesheet

Surely this would be a lot more time efficient and also won’t have cars speeding round trying to catch the pack going past the incident
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 17:20 (Ref:3987025)   #448
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On the topic of how teams are approaching this coming weekend - The pessimistic side of me feels the teams that showed promise will hone in on a perfect race weekend with back to back races like this
So Mercedes will figure out how to run their race better and lead to a more certain Mercedes lock out. Red bull will figure out their stuff and cement both cars as 3 and 4. Upper midfield may tussle among themselves, but I don't see it changing the direction of the championship much. Maybe Racing Point finish ahead of McLaren? The teams that need to try something different won't massively impact the results even if the change worked, because this time all your competitors got that much closer to running the perfect race.

I can't bring myself to wish mechanical issues or other race altering incidents, so this weekend feels a little flat in terms of lead up excitement.
So where do you put the Ferrari? tussling with the mid field if they are lucky
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Old 9 Jul 2020, 17:27 (Ref:3987027)   #449
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On the topic of how teams are approaching this coming weekend - The pessimistic side of me feels the teams that showed promise will hone in on a perfect race weekend with back to back races like this.

So Mercedes will figure out how to run their race better and lead to a more certain Mercedes lock out. Red bull will figure out their stuff and cement both cars as 3 and 4. Upper midfield may tussle among themselves, but I don't see it changing the direction of the championship much. Maybe Racing Point finish ahead of McLaren? The teams that need to try something different won't massively impact the results even if the change worked, because this time all your competitors got that much closer to running the perfect race.

I can't bring myself to wish mechanical issues or other race altering incidents, so this weekend feels a little flat in terms of lead up excitement.
I'd like not to have stand corrected and seen different tyre compounds used in the second race. According to that chart, they are bringing two different sets of compounds to the two Silverstone races.

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Old 9 Jul 2020, 17:57 (Ref:3987039)   #450
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This really bugs me. Formula 1 is rich enough and smart enough, so there must be a obvious reason I’m missing.

Instead of letting the lap car overtake the pack and safety car, then drive round (we may lose 1 or 2 laps whilst they catch the train again, why can’t they just let the rest of the field overtake them and then add a lap onto their timesheet

Surely this would be a lot more time efficient and also won’t have cars speeding round trying to catch the pack going past the incident
Firstly, the free pass lap only happens when the track is clear already.

Secondly, if you reposition already lapped cars to the back of the pack by asking the pack to pass them, then they have a tyre and fuel advantage. It's not always the lowly teams in the position of the freebie and many F1 fans would spontaneously combust if someone manoeuvred themselves to be in that position and take advantage of fuel/tyres accordingly. It WOULDN'T BE FAIR in the same way that if your driver does badly out of the SC it ISN'T FAIR AND SHOULD BE DONE DIFFERENTLY.

Having spent a considerable amount of time on track as a marshal (both dealing with the sort of stuff that drivers do *and* in the passenger seat of the SC at club and national level in the UK and abroad), there are times when the WEC-style FCY (NOT the American style FCY which involves a pace car!)/the F1-style VSC/the Code 60 used by DSMB, Creventic and the like is the right thing to do but there are also times when the traditional safety car is the right thing to do also.

The 'everyone run at the same speed' rules are great, if everyone does that, but they don't necessarily give a decent gap to be able to clear debris if it's strewn all over or you have to get recovery vehicles or personnel to cross the track. The traditional SC works incredibly well at creating a big working gap until people start to pit, then you have cars chasing the pack at close to racing speed - and that can be quite hairy.

In both cases, *everyone* in high-speed non-club motorsport whinges like fury about how slow the SC is going (or how slow the VSC limit is) because it affects the tyres - yet that's the same for everyone.

In any case, the deployment of SC/VSC/FCY etc sometimes throws the strategists a lifeline - and makes for interesting races. Which is, after all, what we want.

Isn't it?
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