Zytek news

[knighty]

Well it was only a matter of time………I'm sure Zytek were feeling left out too………they are supplying so many teams at the moment, therefore their contribution to LMP1 and LMP2 is very significant in both chassis and engine supply……..so where do we start

To my knowledge, both engines are designed by Kanada?..... the ex-honda F1 designer that Judd also use for their designs…….hence, both Judd and Zytek engines are very F1-like with big bores and short strokes, which contributes well to a low C of G, and a low friction engine. Both engines feature single roller barrel throttles and cam drives from the flywheel end of the crank - this contributes well to a reliable engine design…….both engines use flat-plane 180 degree cranks, with no balancer shafts, this causea a lot of engine vibrations!

LMP2 - the 3.4 engine is now considered one of the best customer LMP2 engines about, Binne, Embassy, WR + more cant be wrong…….its been proven both I4 2.0 turbo and V8 3.4 NA work in LMP2, but this engine does seem to be making a real impression…….although it makes a fantastic noise, its 10,000 rpm rev potential does cause chassis problems with regard to vibrations from the flat plane cranks, but like F1, it seems the teams have now learnt how to deal with this via adding vibration dampers to things like ECU's and alternators, which prevents them from being shaken to bits.

LMP1 - the 4.0 I think is only used by Areaa in the sole LMP1 car at the moment?....... it makes respectable power, but lacks a bit on torque, Zytek know this and are keen to exploit an additional hybrid KERS type power source, like a piggy-back system to the current 4.0 engine, I have read in tech mags that Zytek are hoping this will fill the torque gap they have when compared to the likes of the Judd 5.5 and AER 4.0 motors…….hints have been dropped about electrical systems, but I suspect they will be forced to evaluate both flywheel and hydraulic systems too, as the electrical systems are very heavy……..I have my money on a hydraulic-hybrid piggy-back system

So, if you have any relevant Zytek engine or chassis news, chuck it on this thread, as I find some quite interesting tech stuff gets lost in the sea of other non-tech threads ;-)

[gwyllion]

Zytek is working on KERS for F1. They claim to have an exclusive deal with one team. See http://www.zytekgroup.co.uk/Default.aspx?tid=254

This solution has to be ready by 2009. So presumably they can reuse some of these developments for LMP racing.

[Matra-simca]

Originally Posted by knighty

Well it was only a matter of time………I'm sure Zytek were feeling left out too………they are supplying so many teams at the moment, therefore their contribution to LMP1 and LMP2 is very significant in both chassis and engine supply……..so where do we start

To my knowledge, both engines are designed by Kanada?..... the ex-honda F1 designer that Judd also use for their designs…….hence, both Judd and Zytek engines are very F1-like with big bores and short strokes, which contributes well to a low C of G, and a low friction engine. Both engines feature single roller barrel throttles and cam drives from the flywheel end of the crank - this contributes well to a reliable engine design…….both engines use flat-plane 180 degree cranks, with no balancer shafts, this causea a lot of engine vibrations!

LMP2 - the 3.4 engine is now considered one of the best customer LMP2 engines about, Binne, Embassy, WR + more cant be wrong…….its been proven both I4 2.0 turbo and V8 3.4 NA work in LMP2, but this engine does seem to be making a real impression…….although it makes a fantastic noise, its 10,000 rpm rev potential does cause chassis problems with regard to vibrations from the flat plane cranks, but like F1, it seems the teams have now learnt how to deal with this via adding vibration dampers to things like ECU's and alternators, which prevents them from being shaken to bits.

Knighty

Your analysis pretty much mirror's former Gulf Chief Engineer John Horsman's commentary about adapting Cosworth's F1 DFV engine for sports car racing well over thirty years ago. Evidently not much has changed, vibration is still the primary reason LMP2 has a fraught time at Le Mans. I heard the DFV for the first time at Daytona in 1977, in the back of John Rondeau's Inalteras. What a noise on the banking! But in terms of aural delight, Zytek's 3.4 V-8 is hard to beat. It's audio signature almost V-12ish compared to other flat-plane crankshafts. And on throttle-liftoff - popping and banging - well, that's old-school harmonics for these tired ears and well worth the price of admission alone.

In the hands of the right pilots, the LMP2 Zytek is a potent weapon. I've often wondered what could be achieved at Le Mans with balanceshafts - on any of the P2 runners, for that matter - although I believe their installation would probably result in unacceptable hp drain.

Todd

[chernaudi]

Does the Zytek LMP2 and LMP1 engines have any relationship to the Ztyek/Judd F3000 engines, which were Cosworth DFV derived(which might explain some of the Judd and Zytek V8's problems)?

[dj choc ice]

i think in the 2002 and 2003 engines the zytek 3.4 V8 did have some parts from the formula 3000 engine but from then onwards it was a completely new engine from 2004 onwards, infact i dont think the engine has changed that much since 2004/2005 its only had minor modification, probably because the engine in terms of performance was ahead of its rivals.

and if im right in thinking isnt the zytek 4.0 V8 based on a older engine that was whacked in the panoz LMP07 evo which was a trifle of a thing?

[SALEEN S7R]

One thing regarding the 3.4ltr engine, dont know how many here know but it is the same engine that the A1 GP cars use.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

since 2004/2005 its only had minor modification

What was that then ? ..... the throttle cable !!!

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Matra-simca

Knighty

Your analysis pretty much mirror's former Gulf Chief Engineer John Horsman's commentary about adapting Cosworth's F1 DFV engine for sports car racing well over thirty years ago. Evidently not much has changed, vibration is still the primary reason LMP2 has a fraught time at Le Mans. I heard the DFV for the first time at Daytona in 1977, in the back of John Rondeau's Inalteras. What a noise on the banking! But in terms of aural delight, Zytek's 3.4 V-8 is hard to beat. It's audio signature almost V-12ish compared to other flat-plane crankshafts. And on throttle-liftoff - popping and banging - well, that's old-school harmonics for these tired ears and well worth the price of admission alone.

In the hands of the right pilots, the LMP2 Zytek is a potent weapon. I've often wondered what could be achieved at Le Mans with balanceshafts - on any of the P2 runners, for that matter - although I believe their installation would probably result in unacceptable hp drain.

Todd

Hey Todd - sounds like you have also read the July 2007 issue of MotorSport magazine too.....they did a truly brilliant article on the DFV powered Gulf Mirage cars......in short Keith Duckworth wanted nothing to do with it, and the DFV was a flop in sports car racing, and it was a miracle the car won LeMans, aparrently it was about to fall in half and was only being held together by a cracked engine mount, the engine was literally shaking the car apart........first time Derek Bell drove it he puked up in his crash helmet, I was only born in 1977 so its way before my time, hence I rely on the magazine info!

even back in the 70's Cosworth had a 4.0 V8 with twin balancer shafts on the drawing board, for LeMans racing, but it got scrapped as Keith was only interested in one race series - F1......a set of balancer shafts would add about 5-10 Kg to an engine weight, and probably take about 3-5 bhp to drive.....which is not the end of the world if it gets you to the end of a 24hr race.

I lose track of the actual Zytek LMP1 & 2 engine specs over the years, and what else they are used in.......but I think the 4.0 unit is the Panoz front engined unit, but evolved into its current spec......I think the 3.4 is also the A1GP unit too........the latest designs are exactly that, nothink like an old F3000 or DFV unit.....the rear cam drive from the flywheel end of the crank is quite new thinking.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the main contributing factors that Rollcentre left LMP2 was their constant reliability issues, parts being shaken to bits and what not.......but the main push to LMP1 was the main sponsor

[Matra-simca]

Originally Posted by knighty

Hey Todd - sounds like you have also read the July 2007 issue of MotorSport magazine too.....they did a truly brilliant article on the DFV powered Gulf Mirage cars......in short Keith Duckworth wanted nothing to do with it, and the DFV was a flop in sports car racing, and it was a miracle the car won LeMans, aparrently it was about to fall in half and was only being held together by a cracked engine mount, the engine was literally shaking the car apart........first time Derek Bell drove it he puked up in his crash helmet, I was only born in 1977 so its way before my time, hence I rely on the magazine info!

Knighty

I didn't read Motorsport's article, but John Horsman goes to great lengths detailing the DFV saga his Gulf team had with the V-8 in his wonderful 400 page tome, "Racing in the Rain". If you hadn't read it yet, you must go out and buy it today. Once you do, you won't be able to put it down. It is a fabulous engineering, logistical and team journey, with fantastic drivers I might add, from the time he spent with Aston Martin, thru the Gulf racing years, and to the final ill-fated chapter when his Mirage Cosworth was dismissed from Le Mans in 1982 just minutes before the start. Given the engineering wealth teams bring to a race today - I counted a bank of 20 laptops in the Audi enclosure at PLM one year - Mr. Housman was, literally a one-man show.

I had the good fortune to meet John that year at the Hotel de France in La Chartre du loir, John Wyer's usual Le Mans headquarters, where some team members were having lunch. He was kind enough to give me directions to where Andretti's car was being prepared. Little did we know he was to embark on probably one of the worst chapters in his life.

Todd

[gwyllion]

Interview with John Manchester: http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=4635

[gwyllion]

Hindy just had an interview with John Manchester on Radio Le Mans.

Zytek will improve the 07S chassis during the winter with an extensive wind tunnel program. They have a development program for both chassis and engine.

They are also evaluating a coupe!