DMN 2008 - drivers, cars, regs?

[andypipe]

Eric

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by jaysalv

although as i have said on another forum its a shame that the dmn has lost the whole ...build a car in your garage on a budget feel about it . it now seems that its turning into a ex cup car championship . BUT it is still fun to watch

True - but the tin-tops has taken over the "build it in your garage" side of things, and that allows cars to be brought out and and developed in a less pressured environment before they're unleashed in the DMN. Seems like a good idea to me.

Also to be fair some of these ex cup cars can be bought for very reasonable money - building a car from scratch can cost an arm and a leg even for a relatively low spec car.

[jaysalv]

but wouldnt it feel better racing in a car you have built from scratch yourself than in what a factory have done . i strated building my own and could not wait to get it on track but run out of time and money to finish it off . but the tin tops is just as good although could do with more entrants

[Jamie G]

Originally Posted by grichie87

can we see about some way to level the playing field? spose that will go for Richard Brent also. The rules allow this why are we not applying them?

Why does it apply to Richard Brent? He raced at Brands in Phil's car, so it's not like it was his car that dominated? Or are we just talking about penalising drivers here?

[mig]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

i love my racing as much as the next man lee but when it costs me more money than fun i'm outta here.as i have said before this motor sport malarky is just a hobby for me, some place i can blow off steam at the weekend but i wont rob a bank to keep doing it!!!!...

I agree with you Woody but there are some drivers that can and will spend lots of money on their racing, unfortunately its how it is,

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by Jamie G

Why does it apply to Richard Brent? He raced at Brands in Phil's car, so it's not like it was his car that dominated? Or are we just talking about penalising drivers here?

Richard just outdrove us all,he was excellent,even on the infield at clearways and that is what it is all about in the series.I have been with the series a good many years,had some wonderfull races and thoroughly enjoyed it,hope you guys have as much fun as we have had in the past,dont think so but one never knows.
I was at a race meeting last weekend,one competitor had his head gasket blow,everyone chipped in and it was changed between practice and the race,are we getting to the stage where this cooperation that I have witnessed in our series is going to disappere,hope not.

[Jamie G]

Originally Posted by Eric Falce

Richard just outdrove us all,he was excellent,even on the infield at clearways and that is what it is all about in the series.

My point exactly Eric.

[tallguy_2]

Just seems a shame to see the championship lose desirable and applaudable cars that the crowd love to see as a racing car have to look like their everyday road car.

Both the Seat and Clio are supplied from Seat Sport and Renault Sport etc with these parts fitted, this is the way the cars are made to race.

Regarding our new Leon we spoke to 3 main officials and a series sponsor who all seemed keen and proud that we would be coming to race and help generate the championship profile.

Unless we dismantle our car it's now unable to race in any class with you guys.

[chezza]

The rules which mean the new leon are not eligible are not new rules, they have been in there for at least 2 seasons. It would have been nice to see the car out there, but if its outside the rules its outside them.

[tallguy_2]

so the tigra should have been banned as we raced that in 2006 with a flat floor and undertray.
And the Audi TT Venturi, Mercedes Flat Floor

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by pdd144c

One for Graham, I take it that the standard Cupra R road car spoiler could be used, even though that sits on the top of the boot lid? Then they stay in Class B.

yes despite it being above the rear window you could use the std road going Cupra R spoiler because that was fitted as std to the road car, although please bear in mind you might want to have some seat brochures or publicity pictures just in case you were ever asked to prove it

another option you have is to retain your current spoiler, OK you would have to lower it but if you were to explore the rules fully your could move it substantially back, this would not only help put it back in the air stream but would also INCREASE the effect it has because it would have more leverage on the car

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by tallguy_2

Just seems a shame to see the championship lose desirable and applaudable cars that the crowd love to see as a racing car have to look like their everyday road car.

Both the Seat and Clio are supplied from Seat Sport and Renault Sport etc with these parts fitted, this is the way the cars are made to race.

Regarding our new Leon we spoke to 3 main officials and a series sponsor who all seemed keen and proud that we would be coming to race and help generate the championship profile.

Unless we dismantle our car it's now unable to race in any class with you guys.

i understand what you say, but the overiding factor here is the rules are agreed by the MSA and cannot be changed for this year and the eligability scruitineers word is final

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by joss Ronchetti

Hi Al, yes I am out in CMS as well, but doubt I'll put 5 seconds a lap on you!!
I'm expecting your Monster to go steaming down that back straight past me!
I am expecting to be in the 1.16's if everything comes together! What sort of lap time do you do there? Engine is in bits as the rings were not compatable with my nickersyl bores and have knackered my new JE pistons!! New pistons on there way, hope to be out for Oulton on the 19th April, if not will definately be out for Snetterton-a quick 3 race run-in that weekend!!

Ha ha I bet you will! I originally had JE pistons in this engine I have just rebuilt, the one that let go in 06 when I was last at Snett. Anyhow I opted for one of their other products from their sister company SRP which are a very similiar spec but made from a slightly different low expansion alloy and are considerably cheaper but according to them are well up to the job unless you are contemplating 500 mile NASCAR races or 1000bhp Nitros engines etc. It threw me a bit though when I first assembled it as the pistoins are a knats cock larger as they are designed to run with less clearance (just 2 to 3 thou) than the original JE's they also have the advantage for our sort of sprint racing that they dont rock so much in the bores and as such should last well but its all gone back together OK so I just hope they are right and she don't lock up on me when hot!

[joss Ronchetti]

Hi Graham,

After reading all this am I right in thinking that you can run a non homolagated rear wing, providing it does not come more than halfway up the rear window (hatchback in my sunbeams case) without having to go up into class A?

[pdd144c]

That's correct Joss.

[chezza]

For clarification. Yes you can run non homologated rear wings as long as the height of the rear wing must be no more than half the height of the rear windscreen.

Please see attached diagram...sorry for the quality it was a screen cap of the letter that was sent out. The wording in the box reads "No Part of the rear spoiler may exceed line Y in height which is 50% of X"

[graham bahr]

(h) spoilers and air-dams, it is permissible to fit a front and or rear spoiler, spoilers may not exceed the nominal width of vehicle bodywork at its widest point, and may not project forward or rearward of original bodywork including bumpers by more than 15cm. front spoilers may incorporate a lower splitter in the design, but must remain within stated size allowances.
Class A cars no height restriction on rear spoiler.
Classes B-E rear spoiler height may not be higher than 50% of the height of the rear window, unless the spoiler is homologated to fit the make and model of car by the original cars manufacturer.

heres the exact wording from the rules, as i said earlier, they allow spoilers to extend considerably beyond the bumpers, which is why i said in all probability any downforce lost by moving spoilers down could be regained by also moving them back

[joss Ronchetti]

Thanks very much for the info..will wait and see what the Seaman brothers do with the rear wing now!! See you all at Snetterton

[grichie87]

Originally Posted by Jamie G

Why does it apply to Richard Brent? He raced at Brands in Phil's car, so it's not like it was his car that dominated? Or are we just talking about penalising drivers here?

So far Richard has been dominant in is class with his 205 dont think he has been beaten much in his class But Rod has been unbeatable so far (99%) what is that rule for if its never used? what do you have to do to have this rule used and are there any specs on it, also what is the penalty does it depend on the weight or power of the car? 50kgs in a 150bhp car is not the same as 50kgs in 600bhp car.

[andybg40]

Adding weight in a controlled series works. However, i know that if i had to run success ballast in this series i would just wind the power up a bit more to compensate, especially if you use the weight more wisely in terms of improving traction. So i can't see how adding weight can punish a car in a racing series that has no power limit.

[andybg40]

Another thing that just went through my mind. Why should Rod be punished for being successful? I know that someone else would like to stand on the top step from time to time, but surely it's down to the other competitors to up their game? It's a combination of a well developed car and driver doing the business and it happens in may series (michael and ferrari). However, there is the flip side to this situation. In my eyes racing is the attraction with motor sport, and i would imagine that is the reason why 99% of people compete. It's the racing against other drivers, and their machinery, for 15 laps that gives you the buzz. So, if the adding weight is to give people a chance to race and beat Rod, and i assume he would like this to happen too, why can't Rod just wind the boost down accordingly. I don't think it would take much to knock a few psi off until the lap times are a tad closer to other competitors in class A. Then sitting down and doing all the tricky sums on working out how much weight to add becomes unnecessary.

I would just like to say that these are two conflicting way's of thinking. I am not saying that either is right, but just offering the two obvious solutions to what will be an on going gripe until someone can beat Rod, which really isn't his fault.

[grichie87]

Originally Posted by andybg40

Adding weight in a controlled series works. However, i know that if i had to run success ballast in this series i would just wind the power up a bit more to compensate, especially if you use the weight more wisely in terms of improving traction. So i can't see how adding weight can punish a car in a racing series that has no power limit.

I rest my case m'lord
Rod ran with 30kgs at Brands and still won! I cant turn up the power to compensate. The plot thickens, maybe instead of weight the car/driver should have a time penalty dependant on the circuit and previous times ?

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by grichie87

I rest my case m'lord
Rod ran with 30kgs at Brands and still won! I cant turn up the power to compensate. The plot thickens, maybe instead of weight the car/driver should have a time penalty dependant on the circuit and previous times ?

Yup,I agree,Rod should be penalised and made to start from Lydden when we are at Brands,silverstone when we are at Snetterton etc etc,that would even up the odds a bit,and also do the same with those bloody mini's as well.

[ScoopJumps]

Thats an interesting point about time penalties. I know the CSCC's TinTops series has mandatory pit stops with time penalties added for race wins. Initially a 1 minute time penalty for a race winner then 30 seconds added for every subsequent race win. Seems like a good idea, although their races are 40 minutes in length. Even as a front runner I think I'd find that exciting, knowing I have to push even harder than last time yet my car setup not compromised by adding ballast.

Its a difficult one. I used to think it was poor watching a one horse race but its not his fault its like that. Hopefully this year will be alot closer looking at some of the entrants and everyone will forget what they were whinging about.

[martinlabatts]

snetterton will set the tale for the rest of the season

with the longest straight and two very fast skylines ( must have there best chance here)

shame i am missing this one but doing brit car production s1 with the seat the week before with my ilegal rear spolier lol