FR at the age of 14??? - Page 3

Mr Jinxx · 8 Jan 2003, 00:13 (Ref:466887)

Wise words from littleman, and indeed from Russfeld. I cannot understand how some drivers can just stay in a class for 3 years, say. How do they afford to do this? Like Danny Watts for example, or Alx Danielsson up for his 3rd year of FFord? I guess that they get keener prices than the learning drivers, if they can claim a realistic shot at the title, so that may be all they could afford. In which case, if they then win (or come top 3) they have a better chance of securing backing for the next class up, and better chance of a decent price for a race seat. So it might work for the best this way - a kind of natural selection.

The rich ones will always be able to buy their way into the top seats of course, but I'm not certain what sort of a confidence this gives a driver. Sometimes the line between confidence and unfounded arrogance bestowed by equipment advantages is a thin one.

I agree, different people mature at different rates. It is normally best to let people mature at their own rate, be that meteoric at first then burn out, or slow then gathering pace with experience and confidence, which is the best way if you can do it, I think ... it means that if the driver is good, then his/her confidence is built on the firm foundations of experience, of seeing through the highs and lows (like Justin Wilson, fingers crossed for him) instead of the brash confidence of youth. Don't get me wrong, I always used to wish I was as confident as some youths, but when someone finally EARNS the right to their confidence, it oozes out of them in a palpable way.

Sometimes everyone needs pushing, of course, it's just a matter of finding the key to a driver's motivation and unlocking his/her full potential.

Brash swaggering confidence will certainly get you the initial edge over the more normal or shy driver, but I don't think that too many of the true greats start this way, and anyway, it's crass! I like to see the confidence borne of achievement, rather than the blinkered self-belief of some drivers that turn in to tantrums when bad luck or someone better comes along.

Mr Jinxx · 8 Jan 2003, 00:24 (Ref:466901)

The net result of all that, was that, unless you have a huge budget and can do your European karting and tons of FFord testing and best seats in top teams, then I think it is better to get the driver into a car as early as possible to give him/her as long as possible to mature and get to grips with the machinery. Karting costs, particularly in Europe, are so high these days, that you could run out of money before a driver who takes his time to blossom has a chance to do so when he gets into a car. So many good karters bomb like that. Look at Michael Spencer - won the Zip Formula, 13 or something in the FRenault Winter Series, and will clearly be pretty quick. He and Fraser Sheader battled side by side in karts for years, yet Fraser didn't even qualify for the Formula Renault Winter Series. Callasan was in front of him. And I doubt he will get another chance. Get the driver in the car early, then when and if he gets a chance, he can try and use it to impress rather than have to use it to learn.

unknown · 8 Jan 2003, 13:13 (Ref:467241)

by all accounts Dolby had a very successful test in Renault. he was infact invited by Paston Racing to test in Spain after a driving coach had been impressed and put his name forward. he completed over 300 laps in 1 and a half days getting quicker all the time. this shows his fitness levels are good. he is not a spoilt rich kid. far from it.
i have noticed they have updated Renault photo's on his website. www.craigdolby.co.uk

racingdick · 8 Jan 2003, 14:28 (Ref:467332)

for a 14 yr old, bloody good if that is true?!!
i have to be sceptical, its not uncommon for teams and drivers to overexagerate things.
i know from when paul rivett tested a renault in brands after doing clios all year the strains and forces are considerable. He would be very sore and stiff!!!

racingdick · 8 Jan 2003, 14:29 (Ref:467333)

oh anyone know who the driver behind the car wearing a clio race suit is? is it jason coffin?

String · 8 Jan 2003, 16:42 (Ref:467468)

I just had a look at the dolby web site. Nice little site for interested partys, they seemed to be planing well ahead!

I have to agree that, sponsors interested would look at it and get a bit interested, so hats of to em!

but the rotating helmet with his face peeking out is a little on the spooky side!

Ace Race · 8 Jan 2003, 22:23 (Ref:467933)

I reckon Dolby has a lot of talent, testing FR is a big step though, though the Super1 2002 title would have been his if the actual winner hadn't "bought" his way to the number 1 spot, just my opinion though!

I agree with some of the threads above, eventually talent will shine through the money, kids like Dolby, DaResta and Ian Johnstone from 2001 JICA have real talent and it shows in their driving.

Mr Jinxx · 9 Jan 2003, 10:25 (Ref:468280)

And I say you have to have the money. If Lewis Hamilton had not had the money to complete a full year of Formula Renault, I suspect it might have been difficult for him to have attracted sponsorship after finishing 4th or so in the Winter Series and not setting the world alight in the first half of last season. Quite reasonably, only after time in the seat (= money) did he come on song. Talent can't shine if you can't afford to switch the electricity on.

String · 9 Jan 2003, 10:58 (Ref:468304)

At the end of the day, who knows how anyone will do, expectations are always high if they did well in a lower formula or was streets ahead in karts, but just as many don't do so well early on, and then POW! the next step up the racing ladder is their ball game,sure money helps, but (i'm sure I've said this before) the money dose not press the peddles or turn the wheel!

Some guys struggle at first then suddenly things go there way, and some guys come up with guns blazzing, then hit a brick wall, maybe a financial wall or a talent wall.

And some of those guys we love to see do well, and some we hate to see move up! Its called life!

I know for a fact when I got into racing, I got loads of stick, mainly because most people think I'm loaded! Sure my dad helped me some (but not as much as others think)And when I had a bad day, they all laughed, and when I had a good day, some sneared, but also some patted my back and said well done!

Obviously I didn't become a star, but I did ok!

So lets just sit back and see how Dolby and all the other new kids get on, I still have my own opinions about age, but if they get somewhere and make a name for themselves, then we shouldn't tear them down so quick, we all would like to make sure that F1 has some future stars from Britain!

Right I'll get off my soapbox now!

Mr Jinxx · 11 Jan 2003, 00:07 (Ref:470803)

lol@string. I have some sympathy with that, having been around the karting scene for a while. The trouble is with karting, that until the driver gets abroad and gets into some serious international sticky rubber stuff, it means booger all. UK karting, with its slippy tyres and cr@ppy weather, is limited in its abilities to be useful in sticky-tyred formulae like F3. That's why the managers/fathers etc of Lewis Hamilton, Jamie Green, etc get their kids off into European karting. Great UK drivers like Frazer Sheader don't cut it in cars (unless you get in cars early enough to get experience). The transition from European Formula A or Super A karting to grippy cars is not that great.

But I have been around Cadet and Yamaha and TKM and JICA etc junior karting long enough to know that some of the so-called good karters will either spend all their money on karts, when they should have saved for cars, or will simply bomb when they can't do some of the karting tricks or have the mega engines, etc.

Most of the racing fraternity seem to pay no mind to any karters until they are in a class like JICA or above, and I think they are right. Maybe that should be TKM and above - both Gary Catt and Ben Clucas are ex TKM pilots.

But, as we've said before, drivers progress at their own speed - some meteoric from the off, some quick to start and fizzle out, some slow to start then come on with a spurt (steady bella) and others make steady progress, gaining confidence with each year. Time be time, Jah love.

John Clucas · 11 Jan 2003, 11:11 (Ref:471034)

Not convinced Mr J. While getting used to F3 levels of grip might well be helped by experience of sticky rubber in FA, most ex FA people don't seem to like the lack of grip in a Ford - and no-one with any sense starts in British F3.
I think you are very unfair on Frazer - he didn't bomb at all in reality. He had only done ONE test in a car prior to the official Donington test. He simply did his learning in very deep water in public view - that was the big mistake. It was a bit like learning to swim in a deep, fast flowing river, with boots on. I wouldn't expect anyone with that little car experience to do significantly better - and I've timed quite a few top (FA world champ and down) in their early drives. They have invariably been slow, and some spent most of the time in the gravel.
There really is no reason why driving a kart with no gears to change, left foot braking on the rear wheels only, with a practical maximum of (say) 85, should fully prepare you for something well over 50% faster, 6 gears, heel and toeing using the right foot. It matters not if the karting is done in the UK or elsewhere.
I'd certainly agree getting as much top level competition as possible prior to the switch to cars (at 16) is valuable. It's certainly pointless going to cars if you can't cut it in (at least) national level karting in something at least as competitive as TKM. But thereafter, get into cars ASAP, make sure as you progress that you know where you are by testing with good benchmark drivers (ideally in the same team, so you can learn from them.)
Karting is IMNVHO the best grounding for car racing - but nowhere near as good as many died-in-the-wool karters think.

Mr Jinxx · 11 Jan 2003, 12:06 (Ref:471066)

I'm convinced, JC, because that's exactly what I was saying. FA to FFord is a step backwards in grip, so you can see why the Greens and Hamiltons and Trullis etc miss FFord out. They go straight to FRenault or F3.

As to Frazer, it looked like bombing to me, although I wasn't there,just going by the results. I'm not saying he was a sh1te driver or anything like that - au contraire. I agree, the reason for him bombing was the fact that he had all that experience in karts and none in cars. Proof again that if, as we both agree, he could have got his derriere into a car sooner and got some experience like his oppo Michael Spencer, he would have done much better. Time in the seat is so important.

Finally I agree completely with your NVHO inasmuch as karting is the best grounding, but not as much as karters would have you believe, naturally. Particularly not UK karters. The only advantage I think UK karting bestows, apart from basic racecraft, is the ability to drive in slippery treacherous or mixed conditions, in a car which is perhaps not so well set up. The ability to race well - which many karters and their fathers cite to race teams as a primary attribute - is, as we all know, worth b*gger all really when you get to cars, where you basically just need to be quick, not a great aggressive racer.

John Clucas · 11 Jan 2003, 12:59 (Ref:471093)

We'll just have to agree to agree then! Certainly Ben didn't adapt to Renault instantly (and didn't like it much initially). By contrast F3 seemed a lot easier - and I would have thought the step in grip/performance was similar.

Mr Jinxx · 11 Jan 2003, 18:08 (Ref:471297)

I understand that Renault is not terribly grippy, but a fair step up from FFord. Alex did the Winter Series last year with Falcon, and took to it pretty well, but made a bigger step forward in the grippier Spanish weather when they went testing at Guadix. Never been in an F3 car, but I bet it's even more fun. There seem to be certain things about FRenault that I don't understand - you know the old saying that all cars are equal but some are more equal than others ... I'm not sure it's true, but there are definitely some tricks of the trade, be it in set up, or knowledge of how to get the best out of the tyres on grippy circuits, or driving style or interpretation of data or something. Wish I knew, cos we struggled like crazy with set-ups on some circuits, and taking known good configurations made it even worse sometimes. Who'd be an engineer!