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Old 30 Aug 2020, 15:39 (Ref:3998988)   #251
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I dont wonder. LH is categorically the better driver.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 15:41 (Ref:3998990)   #252
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And it wasn’t a you can’t race it was you can’t use an engine mode to do it.

As pointed out, Hamilton is just better too.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 15:56 (Ref:3998996)   #253
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I just wonder if he has been allowed to? He had to give up second place to Lewis in the 2018 Russian GP, which Lewis won.
1 race in how many years? Didn’t Hamilton return the favour last year....and in Hungary gave Bottas his place back?
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 16:05 (Ref:3998998)   #254
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If Bottas was allowed to use certain modes then Lewis would be too. This is the downside of fairness.

It would be more fun I guess if Bottas used all his toys and roared up to the back of Hamilton but it would probably be quite detrimental to him over the season.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 16:46 (Ref:3999007)   #255
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I dont wonder. LH is categorically the better driver.
I think we all know Lewis is the better driver. I've no need to wonder about that.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 19:49 (Ref:3999069)   #256
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Mercedes must be worried about F1 at the moment they appear to be slowly killing the goose that lays the golden egg for them.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 19:51 (Ref:3999070)   #257
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They do what they have to do. It's just that they're brilliant at doing it...
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 20:02 (Ref:3999081)   #258
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They do what they have to do. It's just that they're brilliant at doing it...
i agree but it is making the racing less than exciting
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 20:05 (Ref:3999083)   #259
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1 race in how many years? Didn’t Hamilton return the favour last year....and in Hungary gave Bottas his place back?
The fact he had to give up the place was bad enough.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 20:06 (Ref:3999084)   #260
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i agree but it is making the racing less than exciting
But that isn't the responsibility of Mercedes, is it? Everyone else has to up their game.

It's exactly the same as the Ferrari years, or the McLaren years, or the Red Bull years. Or _insert team name_ years from before that.
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 20:12 (Ref:3999087)   #261
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i know that is correct but i want to see something more exciting, is that wrong
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Old 30 Aug 2020, 21:00 (Ref:3999108)   #262
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Of course not. Bit boring in every thread though. No need to add more boringness to flooding F1.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 04:49 (Ref:3999147)   #263
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But that isn't the responsibility of Mercedes, is it? Everyone else has to up their game.

It's exactly the same as the Ferrari years, or the McLaren years, or the Red Bull years. Or _insert team name_ years from before that.
It’s not the same as earlier eras of dominance.This is the 7th year of Mercedes dominance threatened only in 2 of those years.Next year under the same Regs will make it 8.None of those earlier eras have gone more than 4 years and in each of the ones you mentioned there were years when another team went into the final round with a chance of winning the championship.
What is making it worse is that the team has a level of resources-read money-that means no other team can match them.
I love F1 but even I am going to find 17 weekends of this in 23 weeks an enthusiasm suppressor if not killer.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 05:19 (Ref:3999148)   #264
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And it wasn’t a you can’t race it was you can’t use an engine mode to do it.

As pointed out, Hamilton is just better too.
And not by a little bit.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 07:27 (Ref:3999158)   #265
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The fact he had to give up the place was bad enough.
I’m not saying I agreed with it....but they were in a championship fight with a decent Ferrari with Bottas out of the championship fight.

Far worse things have happened from within red bull and Ferrari over the last few years in terms of team orders
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 10:50 (Ref:3999196)   #266
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Exactly, Austria 2002 was the worst. Mercedes team orders are nowhere near as bad as that
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 10:52 (Ref:3999200)   #267
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Mercedes must be worried about F1 at the moment they appear to be slowly killing the goose that lays the golden egg for them.
It is not Mercedes that are the problem it is the rest of the field who haven't kept up. It was exactly the same when RB were dominant & Ferrari & McLaren & Renault etc etc.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 11:05 (Ref:3999209)   #268
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Maybe we should blame Ferrari for having all that money, yet end up going backwards?
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 11:21 (Ref:3999213)   #269
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Maybe we should blame Ferrari for having all that money, yet end up going backwards?
Good point. Definitely more Ferrari's fault than Mercedes'.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 11:32 (Ref:3999214)   #270
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Maybe we should blame Ferrari for having all that money, yet end up going backwards?
Indeed

And let’s not forget Red Bull arent short of a few quid. Given their owners net worth, Theres no reason they couldn’t have a bigger budget than Merc

F1 isn’t just about money, it’s having the right team and personnel
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 13:06 (Ref:3999227)   #271
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I’m not saying I agreed with it....but they were in a championship fight with a decent Ferrari with Bottas out of the championship fight.

Far worse things have happened from within red bull and Ferrari over the last few years in terms of team orders
Austria 2002 and Russia 2018 are comparable, in that neither Barrichelo or Bottas were championship contenders, yet they had to relinquish track position to their team mate. Having said that, both have been very effective wing-men and have contributed to the dominance of their respective teams. All of Bottas's 8 wins have come from driving with Mercedes and 9 of Barrichelo's 11 came from when he was with Ferrari.

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Exactly, Austria 2002 was the worst. Mercedes team orders are nowhere near as bad as that
Why was Austria worse? The outcome for Bottas is Russia was exactly the same as Barrichelo's in Austria.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 13:12 (Ref:3999231)   #272
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2002 is worse by a long way. It was the 6th race of the championship, Schumacher had a large lead in the championship, so there was ZERO need for them to give the race to him. It would have also been Rubens first win of the year after reliability issues at the start of the season so many saw him robbed needlessly

2018 It was the 16th race of the championship with Bottas out of the championship hunt and Vettel closing in on Hamilton in the title.

As I’ve said, Russia never sat well with me, but there was a far bigger outcry over 2002 quite rightfully, If you can’t see the difference, I suggest you remove the blinkers

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Old 31 Aug 2020, 13:31 (Ref:3999233)   #273
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2002 is worse by a long way. It was the 6th race of the championship, Schumacher had a large lead in the championship, so there was ZERO need for them to give the race to him. It would have also been Rubens first win of the year after reliability issues at the start of the season so many saw him robbed needlessly

2018 It was the 16th race of the championship with Bottas out of the championship hunt and Vettel closing in on Hamilton in the title.

As I’ve said, Russia never sat well with me, but there was a far bigger outcry over 2002 quite rightfully, If you can’t see the difference, I suggest you remove the blinkers
No need to be like that, it doesn't make your point anymore valid.

Going into the 2018 Russian GP Lewis had 281 points and Vettel had 241, 40 points difference. Going into the 2002 Austrian GP, Schumacher had 44 points and Montoya had 23, 21 points difference. However the points system was different in 2002, with 10 points awarded for the win, not 25 as now.
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 13:38 (Ref:3999234)   #274
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No need to be like that, it doesn't make your point anymore valid.

Going into the 2018 Russian GP Lewis had 281 points and Vettel had 241, 40 points difference. Going into the 2002 Austrian GP, Schumacher had 44 points and Montoya had 23, 21 points difference. However the points system was different in 2002, with 10 points awarded for the win, not 25 as now.
Yes. So basically a 1.5 race lead 16 races in when your teammate is completely out of the fight versus a 2 race lead 6 races in.....

....implementing team orders that soon in a championship where your teammate still stood a chance of winning the championship showed the world exactly where ferraris loyalties lay, and the championship was over before it started

Even with Mercedes dominance, at least they are allowed to race
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Old 31 Aug 2020, 14:26 (Ref:3999240)   #275
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Yes. So basically a 1.5 race lead 16 races in when your teammate is completely out of the fight versus a 2 race lead 6 races in.....

....implementing team orders that soon in a championship where your teammate still stood a chance of winning the championship showed the world exactly where ferraris loyalties lay, and the championship was over before it started

Even with Mercedes dominance, at least they are allowed to race
I don't think Barrichello ever stood a chance of winning the WDC. though he did go on to win 4 GPs and finish second in the WDC that year. Bottas didn't win a single race in 2018, though ironically, he won in Russia the previous year. Interestingly, both Bottas and Barrichelo got pole in those races.
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