Ferrari Rules

[avsfan733]

Originally posted by Kirk
or are we gonna hear at the last minute that one or more of these (rediculous electronic driving aids) will remain.

or we are gonna listen all season to how team "X" (which will always end up being Ferrari in everyones mind like always) has driving aid "Y" and its either a conspiracy or something else....I know which I choose...especially being that F1 is supposed to be about the newest and most advanced technology.

[avsfan733]

Glen don't even bother its worthless....no matter what TGF and Ferrari do its illegal

[Kirk]

Originally posted by avsfan733
Glen don't even bother its worthless....no matter what TGF and Ferrari do its illegal

It's becoming more and more obvious that the Red elitists reside here as well. A level playing field is what race fans crave!

[freud]

Originally posted by avsfan733
....no matter what TGF and Ferrari do its illegal

You are right on spot, my friend!

Just add 'FIA stewards' to your list.

Btw, the script worked perfectly for 2003. I wonder what Bernie/Mosely have drafted for 2004... Big bro fighs with small bro for 15 races and in the 16th race his engine blows... small bro takes the 2004 title. NAH.. just kidding Happy holidays, all.

[Glen]

Originally posted by Kirk
It's becoming more and more obvious that the Red elitists reside here as well. A level playing field is what race fans crave!

You don't have to be a "Red elitist" to know what the rules are. Those are he rules and they are the same for everybody - if you think that act was outside the rules, show us the rules!

[Red]

The elitist Red... Hmm, I like that...

[high contrast]

Originally posted by Kirk
It's becoming more and more obvious that the Red elitists reside here as well. A level playing field is what race fans crave!

"Level Playing Field" and Formula One are a contridiction in terms... ie. Driver selection alone! Let alone the technical interpretations...that's the fascination and intrigue of F1 surely!?

[Red]

You want a detailed list?

[avsfan733]

Originally posted by Kirk
It's becoming more and more obvious that the Red elitists reside here as well.

Where else do 'we' reside? I only post here.

If you want to call us elitists simply for supporting the team me choose to support then I will proudly be an elitist. I don't think anyone here thinks cheating is ok, none of the Ferrari fans are saying it is. The Ferrari fans simply say there is no cheating, so instead of us being elitist its sounds more like the people with constant accusations against Ferrari should all be just grouped into some category which we can all insult because we disagree with their opinion....I'm gonna start calling you guys the paranoid schizophrenics...do you like being called names because of what you believe?

Back to the topic...I see the 1 engine rule as a reasonably good idea to slow down cars and reduce costs...but then we have seen in the past ideas to cut cost and reduce speed usually only increase cost and slow the cars down for about two months.

[MrBluesman1]

Originally posted by avsfan733
I don't think anyone here thinks cheating is ok, none of the Ferrari fans are saying it is. The Ferrari fans simply say there is no cheating,........

um you can't say Ferrari weren't cheating unless you work for Ferrari and know everything that goes on in the team and same goes with every team. Us fans of the sport take it in good faith that the teams don't and won't cheat. There has however been a bias by the FIA and race stewards towards Ferrari but that may or may not be Ferraris doing, us fans will never really know.

Originally posted by avsfan733
Back to the topic...I see the 1 engine rule as a reasonably good idea to slow down cars and reduce costs...but then we have seen in the past ideas to cut cost and reduce speed usually only increase cost and slow the cars down for about two months.

The 1 engine per race weekend has got to be worst idea I have ever seen in F1(apart from grooved tyres). If the FIA keep it that format for many years to come(I doubt that will happen)it may be a little bit cheaper in the long run but in the immediate future it will make it even more diffcult for the teams it is trying to help Jordan and Minardi. Still our good friend time will tell us the answers

[Red]

Originally posted by MrBluesman1
um you can't say Ferrari weren't cheating unless you work for Ferrari and know everything that goes on in the team and same goes with every team. Us fans of the sport take it in good faith that the teams don't and won't cheat. There has however been a bias by the FIA and race stewards towards Ferrari but that may or may not be Ferraris doing, us fans will never really know.

But it is safe for you to say that they did... or FIA is biased etc.. (since we're at it, the thought that actually FIA were rigth and you are wrong didn't cross your minds eh? )

The FIA/Ferrari conspiracy, besides false it also became utterly illogical. Now you tell me that they change 75% of sporting regulations because they are biased towards Ferrari? Huh!?

I don't remember a Ferrari fan starting a "Ferrari did not cheat" discussion, usually is someone else who starts it from the opposite angle and we reply. (Hello Ziggy, long time no see)

[MrBluesman1]

Originally posted by Red
But it is safe for you to say that they did... or FIA is biased etc.. (since we're at it, the thought that actually FIA were rigth and you are wrong didn't cross your minds eh? )

The FIA/Ferrari conspiracy, besides false it also became utterly illogical. Now you tell me that they change 75% of sporting regulations because they are biased towards Ferrari? Huh!?

I don't remember a Ferrari fan starting a "Ferrari did not cheat" discussion, usually is someone else who starts it from the opposite angle and we reply. (Hello Ziggy, long time no see)

Red I have never said Ferrari did cheat, I suggest you read again what I have written mate. What I was saying comes down to nobody except someone that works for Ferrari knows if the team is cheating. As for a Ferrari fan saying Ferrari did not cheat read the post above mine mate. That person, who I take to be a Ferrari fan is saying that "The Ferrari fans say there is no cheating" So could you kindly please point to exactly where I have said Ferrari have cheated!? I am more than aware that every team is capable of cheating but I take it in good faith that they are not.
As for the FIA and their bias towards Ferrari it has been well documented over the years and yet again I never said this was Ferraris doing I said "....that may or may not be Ferraris doing, us fans will never really know." Does it not strike you as odd that it isn't just me saying there is a bias but also Formula 1 team bosses and other team members have been saying this and these have been done when it wasn't Ferrari winning everything.
As for the FIA changing 75% of the regulations, the fact you have said I said that is clearly laughable as those words are written nowhere in any of my posts, the FIA have been wrong on some occasions and have admitted it, after all they are human and human all make mistakes. Try and have a good day now

[Red]

Mr Bluesman, the "you" I used was an impersonal, plural an rhetoric "you", not THAT you! Sorry for the confussion.

PS: Well documented? Well? Documented? Ahem!

[MrBluesman1]

well just fwiiw I am currently sorting through my collection of F1 mags for the ones I want to keep and the one I want to throw away (if anyone wants some let me know) dating back to 98 and many many times it is written in there team members talking about the inconsistencies the FIA have made when it comes to judging Ferrari over other teams. Now fair enough the writer will impart at times their own spin on things but I am adult enough to realise through watching the races and reading countless articles to be able to make my own call.
For the technical bits for eg. Ferrari in Malaysia 99(Ferrari admitted their manufacturing error and the FIA not measuring properly) and McLaren in Brazil 2000(damaged during race but measured using same techniques as Malaysia 1999)I have to take what is written as I have no way of checking these things out myself.

and now I will call it quits on this matter

[Adam43]

as you can probably tell this disjoined thread has been split from:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=47308

That was a discussion on the new 2004 rules (and is again!) started by a new member and IMHO is interesting!

I apologise for the diointedness, however I hope I have made up for it with the title (and the clever double meaning )

[Red]

Ahh, thanks Adam, altough I'm sure that you could've been a little bit more creative towards the threads title. I smell another closed thread in next 6 hours, in F1 forum...

Well, Mr Bluesman, if you dig through your Gazetta dello Sport I'm sure you'll find some other "facts" (by the way, did anyone say Michelin? ). But, as I said, is there any possibility that indeed Ferrari made a manufacturing error on those bargeboards AND Jo Bauer measured them in a wrong way? Just curious.

Anyway, last season they displayed their bias towards Ferrari in a very peculiar manner... To say that the marshalls pushed Michael's car, in spite of regulations, because FIA is biased... last season.... sorry, but that defies common sense.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Red
[i]Ahh, thanks Adam, altough I'm sure that you could've been a little bit more creative towards the threads title. I smell another closed thread in next 6 hours, in F1 forum...

I would have thought you'd like it, "Ferrari rules OK" might have been even better
Six hours, you'll be lucky

[Red]

Hehe

[MrBluesman1]

Originally posted by Red
Ahh, thanks Adam, altough I'm sure that you could've been a little bit more creative towards the threads title. I smell another closed thread in next 6 hours, in F1 forum...

Well, Mr Bluesman, if you dig through your Gazetta dello Sport I'm sure you'll find some other "facts" (by the way, did anyone say Michelin? ). But, as I said, is there any possibility that indeed Ferrari made a manufacturing error on those bargeboards AND Jo Bauer measured them in a wrong way? Just curious.

Anyway, last season they displayed their bias towards Ferrari in a very peculiar manner... To say that the marshalls pushed Michael's car, in spite of regulations, because FIA is biased... last season.... sorry, but that defies common sense.

The Michelins were not against the rules at the time they needed to be measured for the race. As Flavio said he thought it was strange all other parts of the car got measured after the race except the wheels. Look at Ferrari in Monaco there was a bit going on about there bridgestones then come Saturday the magic pace had gone, could very well have just been a coinidence indeed plus with regards to the Michelins as most of the teams running on them said, if Ferrari had this "proof" why did they leave it so long to forward it to the FIA.
I don't doubt at all that Ferrari made a manufacturing mistake, as I said we are all human after all but is it not also a possiblity that McLarens front wing was indeed legal but damaged during the race and therefore out of the teams control of insuring it was satisfying the rules. A little common sence and consistency on behalf of the FIA would go a long way to keeping everyone happy.

I have never questioned MS getting that push at the Nurburgring, what I do question is Monty getting penalized in Sepang in 01 iirc and Indy this year when MS pushes Alonso off the track and the FIA/Stewards see nothing wrong with this. So with regards to the N'ring race yes anyone saying that was wrong of the FIA should have another look at it. Just a shame he didn't go all the way in there
still people see things in different ways. As I said in my first ever post here I love everyteam and the sport.

[Red]

Of course David's wing was legal. Before the race. Not after the race though, and the penalty was harsh indeed. But that had nothing to do with Ferrari; rather with Ron's big and loud mouth.

But you didn't answer the question, is there a small probability that Ferrari's bargeboard, despite the manufacturing error, were actually within the rules?

PS: Michelin's tyres were illegal.

[MrBluesman1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrBluesman1
I don't doubt at all that Ferrari made a manufacturing mistake, as I said we are all human after all......./QUOTE]

and in a previous post I did state that the FIA were also at fault on that one. The FIA did backtrack on that eventually yes granted but then they go and make the same call on McLaren and it stands.
And yes Mr R Dennis does indeed have a bit of a problem at keeping his mouth closed on certain issues. Take Spain 01 with DC and the brainfade episode.

Also just to clarify I previously stated that the FIA bias may or may not have something to do with Ferrari and we will never really know.

ps. Michelins tyres were never infact illegal with the rules that applied at that given time. the rule stated the measurements were to be taken at the start of the race and not after the race so how that makes them illegal I will never know
had they infact been illegal why were they not banned when they were fisrt brought in back in 2001?

[Red]

Well, because FIA is biased against Ferrari, they wanted to see Williams and later McLaren too beating them? They eventually applied the rules only when the scandal erupted?

[DriverT]

Look, Ferrari have the best driver, best car, best team. If they invent something to go on the car, why should it be taken away from them? If it was any other team, you'd be praising the skies. Get over it!

[MrBluesman1]

Originally posted by DriverT
Look, Ferrari have the best driver, best car, best team. If they invent something to go on the car, why should it be taken away from them? If it was any other team, you'd be praising the skies. Get over it!

what? :confused:
FIA have taken many things away from other teams and just fwiiw I happen to be a Ferrari supporter and a supporter of every team ok my argument is there is a bias towards Ferrari by the FIA and it is something that has not been there just over the last 3 years
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ljakse]

About "TGF's little helpers" at Nurburgring - I just spent quite some time trying to find an article in which Mosley clearly says that allowing a car to be pushed was actually a new one. I didn't find that but from FIA's Sporting regulations for Formula one, as a change in the rules beetween 2002 and 2003 is stated :

article 142
c)If, after the start, a car is immobilised on the starting grid, it shall be the duty of the marshals to push
it into the pit lane by the fastest route. If the driver is able to re-start the car whilst it is being pushed he may
rejoin the race.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier - my point was how FIA decides what is important for us to know, and what is not, and in no way I intended or wanted to imply that TGF/Ferrari were cheating.

Red elitists , a question for you: why do you scream innocent when no one sad guilty? at least, for this matter