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Old 23 Mar 2018, 12:48 (Ref:3810145)   #181
MaskedRacer
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Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
And that 2:11 is on Contis... with Michelin coming in, 2:09/2:10 should absolutely be in reach,
Also if a series mandated a bigger and flatter spec rear wing for GT4 cars rather than that ugly little curved one they use now. It could be 2 min 7 at Sebring perhaps.
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Old 23 Mar 2018, 12:50 (Ref:3810147)   #182
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There's definitely starting to be some pushback from the SRO in general now. They let a lot slide while things were still blowing up but in addition to PWC kicking out factory teams this year we've seen new regulations about car production to prevent factory specials and significant effort to prevent a new evo car outperforming the old model. As long as GT4 exists and is a viable alternative for many series and teams it will never be what it was though.
At least GT4 being around keeps them honest with making sure GT3 stays reasonable. I love GT3 and hope it remains viable for a long time to come. After thinking about it I am starting to warm up to the idea for IMSA to make the Daytona 24 a non points paying race for the full season championship. Teams like CJ Wilson and HART could really benefit from something like that.
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Old 23 Mar 2018, 13:30 (Ref:3810154)   #183
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You guys have brought up some good points. As we have seen with actual drivers that post here, it's not just one thing that is the magic bullet that will fix the problem. It's a combination of things. As I have covered before, the inflation rate in racing is completely out of whack from reality. This the reason why those rich guys that have X amount to spend each year on racing, drop GT3 and go to GT4. Thus GT4 is a global hit and GT3 is not looking so hot. Thus the reason why most of the GS guys from a few years ago are gone completely. They were used to spending $50K per weekend and when it turns into $80K, that's beyond their budget.

One of the issues with having GT3, GT4 and TCR are things like undercover factory teams. Other issues are manufacturers that show up to run and need a year for development under race conditions (why not do that at home like others do). Then those $50K update kits. Why update a car only to slow it back down again? I'm all for a reliability update of certain parts (i.e. uprights, transmissions, engines) but there's no need at all for an aero update and revised pickup points. Yet that's what we do. Another issue is that when the model comes to an end, the manufacturer comes up with the race version within a few months, thus they want you to race the new one, not the old one. A good example of that are all of these Golf TCR cars. If you buy one today, it has a year of life and then VW will have the MK8 (due to go into production in June 2019). By the end of 2019, your TCR car will be worth 30% of what it is today. You will have to buy a new one because VW sure wants to sell those MK8's because their racing program is a profit center.

This is not even getting into the price of admission to pro racing. It's literally double as to what it was 5 years ago. This is what you pay the sanctioning body. How can double be something that is justified? Then the point of the level of professionalism has only to do with presentation and not quality. The problem is, IMSA and PWC reward that in how you are treated. There was a time they were happy when you were giving it your best shot and wanted you to feel welcome. Not any more. So, teams have to spend money on fluff which that budget is exceeding the R&D budgets of when we had to do all of the R&D ourselves. In the end, we reduced one line item and increased another by 2X. This is why doing a budget in the real world for over 30 years makes you see where the trend is going. More show and no go.

Then there's one other thing pro racing will never tell you about. All of the other startup series' that are taking this money from those rich guys. It's happening right now and it's literally only growing those series'.
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Old 23 Mar 2018, 14:29 (Ref:3810170)   #184
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Also if a series mandated a bigger and flatter spec rear wing for GT4 cars rather than that ugly little curved one they use now. It could be 2 min 7 at Sebring perhaps.
Bring back the Crawford wing from Rolex GT!

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Old 23 Mar 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3810172)   #185
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Bring back the Crawford wing from Rolex GT!

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In relation to the GT3 cars, I was never a fan of those spec rear wings from Grand Am GT and the first year of GTD. Another reason why I was never a Grand Am fan in addition to those ugly Gen 2 Rileys. The Grand Am GT category was extreme minor league compared to ALMS GT (now GTLM).

With that said, the Crawford wing idea might work for the GT4s.
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Old 23 Mar 2018, 17:08 (Ref:3810208)   #186
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This is not even getting into the price of admission to pro racing. It's literally double as to what it was 5 years ago. This is what you pay the sanctioning body. How can double be something that is justified? Then the point of the level of professionalism has only to do with presentation and not quality. The problem is, IMSA and PWC reward that in how you are treated. There was a time they were happy when you were giving it your best shot and wanted you to feel welcome. Not any more. So, teams have to spend money on fluff which that budget is exceeding the R&D budgets of when we had to do all of the R&D ourselves. In the end, we reduced one line item and increased another by 2X. This is why doing a budget in the real world for over 30 years makes you see where the trend is going. More show and no go.

Then there's one other thing pro racing will never tell you about. All of the other startup series' that are taking this money from those rich guys. It's happening right now and it's literally only growing those series'.
Do you think AER / Champ car and the like are ever going to be in a position to challenge IMSA or PWC when it comes to eyeballs and marketing dollars? Or are we strictly talking drivers having fun, exposure be damned? I suppose the only real selling point of the IMSA/PWC experience over the fledgling series is that you are in "the big show." I know a handful of people doing AER and it's stupid cheap, relatively speaking, when it comes to racing.
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Old 23 Mar 2018, 18:55 (Ref:3810225)   #187
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Do you think AER / Champ car and the like are ever going to be in a position to challenge IMSA or PWC when it comes to eyeballs and marketing dollars? Or are we strictly talking drivers having fun, exposure be damned? I suppose the only real selling point of the IMSA/PWC experience over the fledgling series is that you are in "the big show." I know a handful of people doing AER and it's stupid cheap, relatively speaking, when it comes to racing.
You do realize that IMSA and PWC have 95% of the seats paid for by rental drivers. That 95% are only concerned that they get a pic of their car with the company name on it and that satisfies the IRS for advertising expenditures. Part of that 95% are rich parents that have a certain budget because their budding Michael Schumacher will get signed on by a factory team. When that doesn't happen, then they are on their own.

Right now PWC is at COTA. Go on their site and look at the lap record holders for that track in PWC are today. You'll find that they are probably back in Europe or driver coaching. Driver coaching actually means, "convincing a rich guy to pay for me to go pro racing again".

The marketing and eyeballs is just a thing to make the renters feel good about what they spend. That is all. If it wasn't then these other "club" series' would have about 10 cars per event. Looks like they don't and if you notice, AER has gone from Chumpcar +1 to a bunch of racers that gave up on IMSA and PWC over the last 10 years.
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