BTCC BTCC 2018 - Rounds 10, 11, 12 - Oulton Park - Page 4

RS67 · 10 Jun 2018, 18:54 (Ref:3828150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what are the odds that Plato/ Scott will go tot uncle Alan and demand more boost or threat to quit the BTCC?

Seeing as how they have opted to run reduced boost to protect the crankshaft, that would be pointless.

crmalcolm · 10 Jun 2018, 18:57 (Ref:3828151)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

wouldn't be the most straight forward solution for BMR to just put the TOCA Swindon engine in it ?

What if the reason for the poor performance is not fully down to the engine?

It would also need a lot of design work, because the Boxer engine is lower and further rearward than a TOCA unit could be mounted.

Evantra · 10 Jun 2018, 18:59 (Ref:3828152)

Strikes to Collard, Turkington, Smiley and Cammish (the first 3 all being against Brett Smith!)

Hill & Cole's finishing positions from R3 reversed as well.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...-park-weekend/

porsche962fan · 10 Jun 2018, 19:21 (Ref:3828160)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It would also need a lot of design work, because the Boxer engine is lower and further rearward than a TOCA unit could be mounted.

they would have plenty of time in the summer break

porsche962fan · 10 Jun 2018, 19:22 (Ref:3828161)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

I wouldn’t have thought Subaru would be happy with that though....

well they aren't happy with trailing at the back either

S griffin · 10 Jun 2018, 19:32 (Ref:3828163)

Well done Simpson, proved he's come a long way, shame he didn't get out after that win

Glad to see Colin win after some personal tragedy and nice to see Collard back on form getting that win. Seems the experience is coming to the fore again. I can see Colin taking the title now

Motorbase did well, Chilton had a great weekend. Shame more bad luck for Tordoff

Tingram and Morgan did well to salvage something after a bad quali, Morgan's season usually goes sour here, so it's nice to see a change of luck.

Scoobys nowhere on a track that favours RWD. Plato just seems to give up, while Sutton drags what he can out of the car. Something is not right

GT6 · 10 Jun 2018, 19:53 (Ref:3828175)

Enjoyed the third race, well the second third race.

Agreed the Saburu's are just out of it.

RS67 · 10 Jun 2018, 19:58 (Ref:3828177)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they would have plenty of time in the summer break

Time yes, but money, that is probably the all important thing.

Racer65 · 10 Jun 2018, 20:05 (Ref:3828179)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux

Of course Plato’s cars top speed is slow but in qualifying he had the highest top speed of all the Subaru’s and was faster than Turkington.

Selective quoting there though. Plato was faster than Turkington in one speed trap out of three and then only in quali. Every other time Plato was rooted near the bottom which shows me he probably got a massive tow or skipped a corner in the odd one.

Mike Harte · 10 Jun 2018, 20:34 (Ref:3828186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

Shame, but as we saw in 2016 that could've been much worse. Think a widening and straightening of the pit straight might be in order.

Why?

Surely it is far better to tell the drivers to use their brains, and to train them to be aware of what is going on around them.

Back in the 60s, we used to have grids at Oulton with 3 across followed by 2 across and so on through the grid. When the flag dropped at the start of the race, we knew that the track narrowed as we went down towards Old Hall so we took care to avoid tripping over fellow competitors.

I today's third race, a driver who couldn't fathom out for himself that the two cars in front of him would be closing in, decided that the best route for him was to try to get through a fast closing gap.

That wasn't the the track's fault; that was down to a driver with more ambition than skill.

Mike Harte · 10 Jun 2018, 20:46 (Ref:3828188)

It was interesting in the programme's early segment about the woes at BMR that they danced around the matter of the engines, both from the ITV crew and from BRM's team of speakers.

I really think that they take a lot of viewers as idiots, because you listen to what they say and then compute that against reality and the past. The team's response was that they needed to change engine tuner to keep up with the other cars, yet there was no problem with the power output from the Mountune prepared units at the end of last year.

OK, I accept that they probably don't want to wash their dirty linen in public and tell the audience that the real reason was allegedly that they had payment issues. The way that they came over was almost as if they were blaming Swindon for providing them with an inferior product.

Didn't come across well, especially with Plato appearing to be sulking, and poor old Sutton really trying to put a brave face on.

Evantra · 10 Jun 2018, 20:52 (Ref:3828192)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Why? Surely it is far better to tell the drivers to use their brains, and to train them to be aware of what is going on around them.

Back in the 60s, we used to have grids at Oulton with 3 across followed by 2 across and so on through the grid. When the flag dropped at the start of the race, we knew that the track narrowed as we went down towards Old Hall so we took care to avoid tripping over fellow competitors.

I today's third race, a driver who couldn't fathom out for himself that the two cars in front of him would be closing in, decided that the best route for him was to try to get through a fast closing gap.

That wasn't the the track's fault; that was down to a driver with more ambition than skill.

Whilst I agree that Bushell could've / should've backed out, these cars are wide and sometimes bunching is inevitable. The track should be wide enough so that innocent drivers like the BTC Norlin pair don't have their races end before even making the starting line with a huge repair bill too - nevermind spectators or marshalls getting injured like at Snetterton

Evantra · 10 Jun 2018, 20:57 (Ref:3828193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Didn't come across well, especially with Plato appearing to be sulking, and poor old Sutton really trying to put a brave face on.

This is something I've noticed. Sutton has finished all 12 races, with points in all but 3.

Plato has 4 non-starts / finishes (all engine related I believe) at least a couple of which can be viewed as 'giving up'.

You wouldn't think Plato has been doing this for ~25 years longer from his attitude. Sutton has a bright future.

porsche962fan · 10 Jun 2018, 21:01 (Ref:3828196)

Bushell seems to be the most aggressive driver on the grid

given this incident maybe a good excuse for BTC Norlin to miss the next round without risking their TBL ??

redshoes · 10 Jun 2018, 21:02 (Ref:3828197)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The team's response was that they needed to change engine tuner to keep up with the other cars, yet there was no problem with the power output from the Mountune prepared units at the end of last year.

Notably the quote from the team said that the decision to work on the engine was one of the first things they did after the end of last season, so if you believe that then they've had all winter to work on the problem. So why then was the switch to Swindon announced just days before the start of this season, and they started the season with only one Swindon-built engine.

As you say, the full facts may not be out in the open but do they really take us for idiots.

Racer65 · 10 Jun 2018, 21:06 (Ref:3828202)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

Whilst I agree that Bushell could've / should've backed out, these cars are wide and sometimes bunching is inevitable. The track should be wide enough so that innocent drivers like the BTC Norlin pair don't have their races end before even making the starting line with a huge repair bill too - nevermind spectators or marshalls getting injured like at Snetterton

Where do you draw the line though? When three cars can run side by side, six, eight....

The drivers have to show some situational awareness and intelligence. That move was never going to work.

Evantra · 10 Jun 2018, 21:09 (Ref:3828205)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

given this incident maybe a good excuse for BTC Norlin to miss the next round without risking their TBL ??

Wouldn't think so, Smiley's didn't look too terrible cosmetically. Hopefully Lloyd's budget hasn't been hurt too bad though.

Craner Curves · 10 Jun 2018, 21:29 (Ref:3828214)

Absolutely nothing wrong with the circuit. It's just millennials overreacting again......

medius · 10 Jun 2018, 21:56 (Ref:3828220)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the number of punctures. What was different? Tyre issue or contact? Kerbing?

Unusual to see at Oulton.

Sodemo · 10 Jun 2018, 22:02 (Ref:3828222)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

wouldn't be the most straight forward solution for BMR to just put the TOCA Swindon engine in it ?

It might not fit either, not sure, im not an expert on such things.

The BMR situation looks untenable. Is it public knowledge that they had to quit mountune over "payment issues"?

I was very surprised to see the BMW 1-2-3 in the final race, I guess I was wrong on the RWD and Oulton layout. The one thing I have noticed is that I dont nessasarily think that the BMW pace comes from the traction out of the corners so much now like it used to, I think that is still a strong trait, however their straight line speed now is a little better than it was in previous years, so to my eyes, it looks like they have taken a hit on speed out of corners, but benefit now from higher boost at the top end, at least thats my deduction.

RS67 · 11 Jun 2018, 05:15 (Ref:3828266)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Why?

Surely it is far better to tell the drivers to use their brains, and to train them to be aware of what is going on around them.

Back in the 60s, we used to have grids at Oulton with 3 across followed by 2 across and so on through the grid. When the flag dropped at the start of the race, we knew that the track narrowed as we went down towards Old Hall so we took care to avoid tripping over fellow competitors.

I today's third race, a driver who couldn't fathom out for himself that the two cars in front of him would be closing in, decided that the best route for him was to try to get through a fast closing gap.

That wasn't the the track's fault; that was down to a driver with more ambition than skill.

Most cars were a lot smaller in the 60's. A mk3 Focus makes a mk1 Escort or Cortina look tiny and that is without the wider arches.
Bushell did nothing wrong, he got a better start than the other 2 and went for the gap. Perhaps if the other two had used their mirrors they would have seen him and realised there was no longer a gap to close. Not any different to Matt Neal's accident at Silverstone in the Mazda Xedos 6.

billy bleach · 11 Jun 2018, 08:44 (Ref:3828305)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS67

Most cars were a lot smaller in the 60's. A mk3 Focus makes a mk1 Escort or Cortina look tiny and that is without the wider arches.
Bushell did nothing wrong, he got a better start than the other 2 and went for the gap. Perhaps if the other two had used their mirrors they would have seen him and realised there was no longer a gap to close. Not any different to Matt Neal's accident at Silverstone in the Mazda Xedos 6.

Why was the Green Mercedes turning left ? Surely the direction of travel from the grid is Straight or right? A classic "you are not coming through" modern Motorsport attitude

RS67 · 11 Jun 2018, 09:12 (Ref:3828311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Why was the Green Mercedes turning left ? Surely the direction of travel from the grid is Straight or right? A classic "you are not coming through" modern Motorsport attitude

Oliphant would have been heading left to get closer to the racing line for the right hander, Butcher was covering that part of the track trying to ensure Oliphant couldn't get too far over and would have to brake earlier for the right hander. What they both failed to notice was that Bushell had got a better start and was now between them. Bushnell was the only one of the 3 heading in a straight line.

crmalcolm · 11 Jun 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3828314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they would have plenty of time in the summer break

Looking at the calendar alone - there was a lot more time between the end of 2017 and the start of this season to get the car right. But even with no restrictions on testing until Media Day - they still were not able to get enough sorted on the car.

Add in the restrictions of testing - and even with a massive budget, they would not be able to get enough track time to sort the car out.

They already have Swindon looking after the engines - which is reported as costing less than Mountune. Time is not the only resource BMR need to sort the car out - and I wonder how much resource is left to use on the car/engine?

S griffin · 11 Jun 2018, 09:25 (Ref:3828321)

Have to agree it wasn't Bushell's fault, two drivers trying to cover each other off without noticing a faster car coming from behind

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Rounds 4, 5, 6 - Donington Park	luckn002	Touring Car Racing	113	5 May 2018 14:37
[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Rounds 1, 2, 3 - Brands Hatch Indy	luckn002	Touring Car Racing	273	17 Apr 2018 23:12
BTCC Oulton Park - Friday 3rd June Marshals' Track Walk with BTCC Driver Mark Howard	Mondeo Man33	Marshals Forum	7	4 Jun 2016 16:46
BTCC Oulton Park (Cheshire) - Rounds 13-15, June 24th 07	Hazard	Touring Car Racing	24	26 Jun 2007 18:22