BRDC Historic Sportscar Championship

[simon drabble]

A series I am particularly fond of and which sadly in recent years has imploded for a whole host of reasons which are irrelevant to this thread. The new managers of it are the people behind the successful Woodcote Trophy and - in common with Masters - are sticklers for period correctness.
As such they are bringing forward the cut off date from Dec 60 to Dec 59.

Does this eliminate the Cooper Monaco's, Lotus 17 with 1220 engines, and Lola Mk1's? Lotus XI's I think are still going to be ok with 1500 engines but not sure. XK120's with 3.8 engines and discs will be banished to the paddock.

Further evidence that promotors are waking up to the fact that the majority want races with straight cars...... We should applaud them and Masters for taking the stance.

[terence]

Those of us who support Historic Racing [Genuinely] are very glad that Masters have taken issues seriously,and yes,they should be applauded,loudly!

[simon drabble]

but lets not forget Legends who are running this series as well for inclusion on the roll of honour

[terence]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

but lets not forget Legends who are running this series as well for inclusion on the roll of honour

Absolutly.

[john ruston]

I am pleased you are all pleased.Jury is out until you see what cars are on the grid and how they are filled.That goes for all organisers.There will be continuation cars,fakes,bent engines etc on the grids because as with the rise in circuit costs they have to cover overheads.Its money and nothing else as why should they subsidise a lot of people playing with old crocks.There are no sponsors and lets face it why should there be.Its not gents driving with these people ,they have a biz to run,although I may make an exception with Duncan who unlike the Masters gang people will try to push the limits.
I hope you are all correct in you hopes but I dont believe in tooth fairies or Father Christmas

[simon drabble]

So JR if you agree Duncan is a "good guy" then it should be a good series. However I dont want to get into the politics too much rather then try and work out which cars are going to miss the cut with the new (but infinitely more logical) cut off date.
If the Lola etc are excluded it will be very interesting to see where they end up because they will be uncompetitive in pre 66.

[john ruston]

Ask him and he is a good bloke but people will lean on him.In this case they may be in for a bit of a shock.lets hope so.

[simon drabble]

it could be fun to see some of the Cooper Monaco owner's throwing their toys out the pram.....!

[Alan Morgan]

Forgive my ignorance - to which Duncan are you referring?

[terence]

Wiltshire,I think.

[Redneck Rocket]

Hope the series carries on successfully. It's been one of my favourites (okay I have a lot of favourites) in the last 3 years I've been here. Some of the cars on my lottery win list are definitely in the grids on a regular basis and it makes for pretty good watching.

[Simon Hadfield]

Cooper Monaco is absolutely a 1959 car! (the others I am not so sure of).

[Simon Hadfield]

Checking David Pratleys book this date would admit the early Lola Mk 1s with FWA engines, as the organisers are known to be sticklers for authenticity then the return of a proper 1100 class would be a vast improvement as many of the 1220 and 1500 engines were fitted to Loti, Lolas, Coopers etc (with the actual encouragement of the then organisers - to close the speed differential!) long after period. In the same vein some of the Cooper Monacos and Lotus 15s were two and a half litres in period - these were banned and mandated at two litres in order to maintain the competitiveness of the Listers etc - so history becomes distorted yet again......

[john ruston]

Seem to remember the only original 2.5 litre engine 15 went to Aus to a man named Salmon? When it returned ,Driven by a Dane?,they made him reduce to 2 litre engine.This was about 5 years ago.The Venebles gang were involved in the deal

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Seem to remember the only original 2.5 litre engine 15 went to Aus to a man named Salmon? When it returned ,Driven by a Dane?,they made him reduce to 2 litre engine.This was about 5 years ago.The Venebles gang were involved in the deal

This was the Graham Hill car - the main problem was that a couple of drivers from the Midlands known to Simon saw it for sale in Oz and asked James Beckett if they could run it in the BRDC Historic Sportscar Championship.
He said they couldn't so they were understandably a bit hacked off when Jac turned up with it at the BGP support race a few years ago.... I guess the issue asto whether it can run or not with the 2.5 is dependant asto what year Graham Hill ran it with a 2.5 litre - does this also mean that 17's will have to run with 750cc engines as per Le Mans?

I think its a good thing and if Lola's and Lotus 11's etc are slower than they have been so what - that was how they were in period

[Brendan Roberts]

I think Lolas ran FWA 1100 59 and earlier and I reckon there will be precious little power difference between an FWA and the FWE (1216cc) which they have been running recently. As far as I know Lolas unlike Lotus X1 have never been allowed to run FWB (1460cc), except one Lola which was built by the factory with a 1500 FPF twin cam, and went to the US after a club race at Goodwood and somehow returned a few years ago and got old style FIA papers despite no international history in period (probably makes no difference now with the HTP set up). Lola Mk1 first built and raced in 58 so there is no reason for them not to be accepted on period grounds. I hope Legends breath some new life into the series as the cars are great to see and deserve to be well supported.

[simon drabble]

I agree with your last statement - it is a crying shame that the series with easily the most evocative cars in it struggles - yet the pre 55 Woodcote Trophy Legends are also running is flying. On that basis they should get it back on its feet. Less red herrings like Kirkistown and more sexy meetings might help and banning XK120s with discs and 3.8 engines would help. I told James Beckett on this forum that he would destroy the series by letting them in and hey presto.... 3 years later the premier British historic championship is struggling to get double digit grids wheen everyone else is oversubscribed....

[john ruston]

Two Irish meetings on consecutive Saturdays.Ideal for you racers!No red herrings and since when have BRDC made sensible racing decisions.Remember when they stopped Bob Woods Pre War race after John Fitzpatrick left despite it being oversubscribed.Coys going to Rockingham....

[simon drabble]

It was a shame that it didn't work with HSCC as I would have thought that was a good fit. I only hear good things about Legends so fingers crossed......

[Belmondo]

Didn't the HSCC run their own historic sportscar series in the late 80s/early 90s? Seem to remember grids being small then also - a few Listers and often not much else.

[simon drabble]

You are right, but the whole historic game has changed since then and HSCC grids are generally either full or even oversubscribed whereas the 50's stuff is struggling. When I was racing my Eleven the grids where full so its difficult to understand whats happened. I hope it comes back as I love this era more than any other one

[Belmondo]

I agree, hope the series picks up this season.

[terence]

So ,anyone coming up for the launch? Dont want a can of peas though.

[willga]

Just found this thread.

I have been racing in this series for the past 3 years, and last year won Class B in my Lotus Eleven.
Last year, I saw the series at best neglected and at worst, run into the ground by the HSCC, and I was hoping that the take-over by Legends would be a renaissance for the series.

However, like the Masters Series, the organisers have taken this on as a exercise in generating profit, and I have seen race-entry fees treble over last season's. 'Longer races' have been cited as the reason for this, but the longer running brings additional damage and thence cost to the race. Combined with the proliferation of foreign venues at the expense of home circuits, this has led to the series becoming far to costly to participate, and my very original and competitive Lotus XI is sat gathering dust in the corner of my garage.

I wrote to Duncan Wiltshire some time ago, but have not as yet had a reply - I can only assume that my letter has been filed in the wastepaper basket.
I feel it is tragic that a once friendly club series should become a reserve for blank-chequebook racers who care little about trading paint and blowing engines.

Has anyone else found themselves in a similar position?

[simon drabble]

I am glad its not just me - I am still waiting a reply to an email as well!!!!! Maybe the link on the website isn't working..
I loved my Eleven and do regret selling it and fully sympathize with your plight and agree thought Legends would be a good thing but it seems that they would prefer to promote Woodcote Trophy series over Historic Sportscar championship. Its a great shame that James Beckett was not able to match enthusiasm with results but as far as I was concerned the rot set in when they started allowing 3.8 disc braked XK120's. No front running correct car wants to be blown off by a hit rod