Brands Masters Historic Festival 24-25-26 08

[johngee]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I seem to recall this conversation from Saturday John,damage is not compulsory.!

True Terry and whilst I stand by everything I say, you (even in your most argumentitive mood! ) would concede that the risk of damage (even self inflicted) is probably greater in the sort of weather we had yesterday.

[Peter Mallett]

Well at least the majority of posters who attended enjoyed the spectacle. But there is a point here that has been raised previously, concerning clashes.

We are moving from national to European calendars for all our series and championships. It is happening almost by osmosis but I think I once promoted the idea of a series of historic/classic festivals. Seems to me that we could well do with that now whereby the various organizations sort their calendars out in order to increase grid sizes and offer the necessary spectacle. I should say that reading this thread it seems that at least one grid was reduced because the competitors withdrew due to the weather. If so you can see the argument for continuation cars.

[terence]

Continuation cars still cost 20k a corner if it gets knocked off.
Why dont we all just have T-Cars with different bodies fitted and have done with it.

[Peter Mallett]

Less than 40k plus panel beating though.

Or heaven forbid, a total write off.

[john ruston]

Masters introduced the Brands thing last year knowing Pau's date and pi...d of French.Donnington April clashed with Tour Auto ,Masters were or should have been aware of date of Tour.Festival of Greed clashes with LMC .Revival runs roughshod over Sept dates .I am sure they all have a reason.

Its the organisers money to lose but they look on the programme as a biz, its their customers who think its a hobby.Woodgood is different as the customers are the paying public and the racers have a bit part

On another point,Is it cheaper to mend a copy a copy/continuation/fake than a real one.?Assume thats Peters point.Must say didn't think of that one!

I will not race cars if I think conditions are dangerous,we withdrew at Porto in 05 dispite cars being at track as we thought it a car wrecker.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Less than 40k plus panel beating though.

Or heaven forbid, a total write off.

Most of the Heavy Weight Cars out there are nye on impossible to total,just look at the difference of the cost of a New version.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

On another point,Is it cheaper to mend a copy a copy/continuation/fake than a real one.?Assume thats Peters point.Must say didn't think of that one!

I will not race cars if I think conditions are dangerous,we withdrew at Porto in 05 dispite cars being at track as we thought it a car wrecker.

Yes that and your next point are what I am alluding to.

[zefarelly]

surely all the cars reaced in the wet in period

I love it when it rains, and it wasn't anywhere near as wet this year as it was last year.

I think they're all just a bunch of whoofters for staying in their fancy tent rather than taking advantage of the pre paid opportunity to drive on the best circuit in the country!

[john ruston]

But I understand the tent blew away.

[Simon Hadfield]

Both tent and circuit were in better order than rumour has it! It is still one of the worlds great race circuits (and probably the only time I am in agreement with Eddie Irvine).

[terence]

Totally agree Simon and Zef,just a shame they sanitised Dingle Dell.

[rbs]

Some interesting posts here, I have been to several "Masters" events and have been disapointed with the events in general. Low numbers of entries, too long races for unreliable cars, last years cars winning races for 1960's cars. I now ask the question are Masters events one series to many in an overcrowded callender?

[Philip Venables]

I understand that the reason the Pau organisers were hacked off last year was due to Masters agreeing to go, then reneging, due to a better (cheaper) offer from Brands. Goodwood and LMC clash for different reasons; LMC have to commit themselves over 1 year in advance, to tie in with modern 24 hours race, Goodwood have similar problems with FOS due to F1 calender.

[rogerwills]

I race cars, don't spectate. I'm happy to put my opinion in on this from a person who competes.

So "rbs", from which perspective are you coming from? Driver, spectator, etc??

[rbs]

I marshal,and have been to the meetings at Thruxton and Donington.

[simon drabble]

As a competitor and spectator I would say bigger and varied grids are preferable which is why goodwood is such a success. Longer races are great to compete in and generally more popular with competitors. The harsh reality is that with the exception of Goodwood the races are paid for by the competitors and therefore race organizers need to cater to them.
In this respect Masters are delivering - the trouble is the clashing calenders and dilution of grids cannot be good for the organizers and less fun for the competitors. Spa manages to accomodate many series and get full grids maybe six or seven weekend meetings like that is the answer or if masters hold a full card make sure it doesn't clash - I hope they sort it and make it work as their full meetings offer great racing for spectator and competitor alike

[rbs]

I really would like Masters to work, but it will need full grids of reliable historic cars. If you go to an HSCC meeting you always get full grids of a good variety of cars, Masters has failed to deliver this year, entry numbers were poor at Thruxton and Donington even though the quality was there. As a marshal I do not want to see 5 good cars circulating for an hour when I can see a full grid for 10 laps. Long distance races may be good for the drivers but unless a full grid is on show it becomes boring for every one else.Too many long races for too few cars is driving marshals away from the trackside. Personally I do not want to be part of a meeting that has to be cancelled because to few marshals turn up. Masters now have to get the balance right, they have to keep drivers, marshals and spectators happy, if they can not keep every one happy the few drivers that are turning up for these events may have to marshal the other races to keep it all going.

[zefarelly]

it would seem then that the HSCC has it right in offering a mix of short and longer races then, packed grids must be because of a mix of value for money, location, the organising business/club

As for reliability I don't think you can say many people don't put the required effort, time and money into presenting and preparing their cars these days, the standards have gone up year on year in the last 5 or so, I would therefore deduce its down to 'over' preparation and drivers not being either sympathetic to the vintage of the machinery and/or just not understanding whats going on underneath their kevlar seats!

[john ruston]

With all this new 08 stuff in the cars they should work.

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

it would seem then that the HSCC has it right in offering a mix of short and longer races then, packed grids must be because of a mix of value for money, location, the organising business/club

As for reliability I don't think you can say many people don't put the required effort, time and money into presenting and preparing their cars these days, the standards have gone up year on year in the last 5 or so, I would therefore deduce its down to 'over' preparation and drivers not being either sympathetic to the vintage of the machinery and/or just not understanding whats going on underneath their kevlar seats!

Bit harsh,but probably true Zef.

[SZRacer]

As one of the 'whoofters', who scratched (for the first time in ten years of racing), I do take offence at some of the comments on here.

I would argue that the conditions at 9am on Monday morning were every bit as bad as last year, probably worse, as the gale force winds meant the driving rain was horizontal. There were trees and branches littering the roads, and the radio was advising people not to travel unless necessary.

At that point, the racing was delayed until further notice, in theory until at least 10.30. I'm sure this was not what either MSVR, Masters, the racers, or the (few solitary) spectators would have wanted, but the conditions were terrible, and safety would undoubtedly have been severely compromised. Racing is inherently a dangerous sport, but that doesn't mean that we have to needlessly endanger anyone.

I would happily have raced at my oiginal allotted time, as I'm sure would most of my fellow racers. My car is certainly not one of the most valuable out there, but nor is it the least valuable! I was not bothered about this, though.

Most of the drivers were soaked to the skin, it was bloody freezing. The 'fancy tent' was leaking water, and nearly took off in the wind, the conditions were so bad. We were then told that 'our' race would be amalgamated with the other Gentleman Drivers race, at 'around 4pm'. Bear in mind that we had all got up early to be there for 8.30-ish, and 4pm was 7 hours away.

Now, most of us were there, as at most meetings, for our own enjoyment. After all (with a very few exceptions), we are not professionals or 'paid' drives. We pay to enter, pay to get there, and pay for our own accomodation. We also all have families/friends/other commitments. in my case I had promised my wife I would attend a birthday party with my son, and needed to be back by 5pm at the latest. Plus, the bank holiday traffic, in torrential rain, on the M25, promised to be a nightmare.

Therefore, and I did feel really guilty about it, as I normally race whatever happens, I scratched. I think that others who left, did for similar reasons. Does this mean we 'let down' paying spectators. Maybe? But this wasn't Goodwood. Does it mean we are wimps? Definitely not - as stated, most of us would be happy to race, even if it was snowing!

Regards,

James

Originally Posted by zefarelly

surely all the cars reaced in the wet in period

I love it when it rains, and it wasn't anywhere near as wet this year as it was last year.

I think they're all just a bunch of whoofters for staying in their fancy tent rather than taking advantage of the pre paid opportunity to drive on the best circuit in the country!

[Peter Mallett]

Good post. It does seem that this meeting has had its run of bad luck now. Hopefully next year will prove to be good weather.

I'd be interested to know how many did withdraw.

Another point that occurred to me last night is that quite a few of the F1 cars are driven by one man teams, they turn up on a Brian James type trailer. The driver offloads it then fettles it then gets in it and races it.

All good stuff but having put that much effort in, it's hardly surprising that a withdrawal to fight another day would be a good choice.

[john ruston]

If you pay for your entry you can race,not race whatever you want .Its your decision and you answer to nobody apart from yourself.Does not need to be justified
It is probable Goodwood give free entry so they are in control and nobody should /can step out of line and this works in 99.9% of cases.

[Peter Mallett]

Yep.

Hmm .9%?

BTW. I don't think Goodwood has suffered like this meeting has, but I stand to be corrected.

I once had a race cancelled because of bad weather and the club refunded all the entry fees. Have to say I was relieved mostly because I was cold, freezing cold and soaked, it was also my birthday and all I wanted was a warm bath and a Balvennie Double wood.

[simon drabble]

I have heard it called many things but never a "Balvennie Double wood"!!

I am intrigued that JR considers his equipe .1% of the historic racing fraternity!!

I am with James on this and I think I would have done the same - Brands is not exactly the most inspiring place to hang around for 7 hours for something that might or might not happen.

Not Masters fault either to be fair!