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22 Aug 2018, 21:57 (Ref:3845468) | #1 | ||
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SUPER TOURING CARS- what’s the future?
Just 13 Super Tourers entered for Gold Cup. Time for action!
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23 Aug 2018, 12:08 (Ref:3845546) | #2 | |||
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Headline events maybe ok though where a big field is the norm. Several popular series are struggling a bit though, mainly the ones where the hardware is the more expensive. However, these things tend to be fluid and who knows, next year ST might get bigger grids again. |
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23 Aug 2018, 12:17 (Ref:3845548) | #3 | |||
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23 Aug 2018, 13:03 (Ref:3845555) | #4 | ||
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The only RS500 entered in the Super Touring race according to the HSCC entry list is Paul Mensley's . In the HTCC race Mensley is joined by Max & Ian Goff and Mark Wright/Dave Coyne .
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23 Aug 2018, 14:27 (Ref:3845569) | #5 | ||
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There is some behind the scenes grumbling on one of the supertouring BookFace pages which a number of the drivers post on regarding the state of the series and organisation of it. I don't know all the exact gripes but one for sure was the hike in entry fees for this year. Another grumble was about the tyres (Hoosier) though allegedly they are moving back to Dunlop next year (if a series even happens?).
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23 Aug 2018, 15:10 (Ref:3845577) | #6 | |||
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23 Aug 2018, 15:20 (Ref:3845580) | #7 | ||
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SUPER TOURING CARS- what’s the future?
I’ve taken relevant posts from the Classic thread so the subject can be further discussed here if anyone so desires.....
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23 Aug 2018, 16:54 (Ref:3845593) | #8 | |||
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The ST entry for Oulton is £40 more than the HTC entry. Price hike?? |
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23 Aug 2018, 17:44 (Ref:3845603) | #9 | |||
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The HSCC is pretty fair in pricing its entry fees. Super Tourers (complex, very expensive cars which are mainly run by professional teams) pay £8.25 per minute of track time at Oulton. Historic FF2000 cars (Transit engine, moderately-priced, mainly run from a domestic garage) pay £8.27 per minute. It will be interesting to see what the Super Tourer numbers are like at Knockhill, where the entry is free. |
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23 Aug 2018, 18:28 (Ref:3845605) | #10 | ||
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Enlightening regarding the relative costs, Alan. The Knockhill races have been and gone (4/5 Aug), and Malcolm Smith posted this- https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153094
Worth pointing out that the STCC didn’t start off as an HSCC Championship, and that the club only originally looked after the racing side. They took over the admin and incorporated it into their this ‘portfolio’ this year, at, I believe, the request of the STCC. Full history of the STCC here- https://www.supertcc.com/history.html |
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23 Aug 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3845607) | #11 | ||
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Knockhill has already been and gone, and the entry wasn't good. It was 2 weeks after the Silverstone Classic, and 3 weeks prior to Gold Cup, which is part of the problem. These aren't the sort of cars where you can just wipe with an oily rag and be ready for the next race. They need to be partly stripped and rebuilt, which isn't always possible in the timescales with limited resource. (I appreciate they aren't unique in that respect.) |
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24 Aug 2018, 08:30 (Ref:3845704) | #12 | ||
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I actually think we should open this out and ask what the future is for historic racing in the future, for (say) post year 2000 cars. The STs demonstrate how difficult/ expensive it is to run relatively recent cars and the technology is often perishable or kept close by manufacturers. The importance of aero in current cars also doesn't help.
Who can envisage running a "historic" F1 series or LMP Series in 10-20 years time for cars from the early part of the 21st Century? Running cars from the feeder formulae/ series in the future will have a different issue - there are just too many "one make" formulae. Who wants to see a series for "historic GP2/3" or "World Series by Renault", or Clio Cup etc etc? |
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24 Aug 2018, 09:11 (Ref:3845712) | #13 | |||
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24 Aug 2018, 09:33 (Ref:3845715) | #14 | |||
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I worry that I cant get front wings for my Audi Quattro; in the future, we will have racing cars sitting in museums that cant be started because the software is corrupt, the microchip has deteriorated and the hybrid system doesn't work. |
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24 Aug 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3845762) | #15 | ||
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There were certainly more cars when the ST races were more of a one off than a series and I imagine some of the owners are very short of parts, I believe Cleland had to have some parts fabricated for his Vectra as there were none around - or none of use as some of the parts that do exists are over 25 years old. |
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28 Aug 2018, 10:14 (Ref:3846699) | #16 | ||
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Sad to see only 5-6 real super tourers turn up at Oulton Park.
I do wonder what will happen next year. I spoke to a few of the drivers, they dont really have the answer to the problems of grid numbers. One driver said part of it is down to no one really trying to rally numbers in order to get the grids up. Another driver said that the better 2019 Dunlop tyres may bring a few drivers back. Is there any way they could "pool resources"?. I know that sounds easier than it would be in reality, but there needs to be some kind of universal support across all cars or something. I saw one team struggling to get a car going, whilst the engineers from another team looks on. Its debatable whether they could have helped, but its that kind of thing which I think perhaps needs looking at. These cars can be (are) temperamental and require lots of maintenance, so if there was a common support network / agreement maybe that could help? I know Dave Jarman and Johnny Westbrook were doing something along those lines (probably unofficially) in years gone by, as id see Johnny with his head deep in a different car's engine bay every time I saw him, however as I understand it they both have nothing to do with the series now and its solely being run by the HSCC. |
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28 Aug 2018, 10:34 (Ref:3846704) | #17 | |||
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In a way, this just reflects our modern society, more's the pity. We all seem to live in our own small bubble. 50 odd years ago, it was not uncommon for rival teams to help out those in trouble on a regular basis. I am forever grateful to the Boreham team of Bert Avard lying under my car helping my lads remove the gearbox so that we could replace the broken flywheel bolts that had sheared off; and in a horrendous thunder storm with the rain coming down like stair rods. Oh, and Bert provided the bolts as well. And my way of repaying them was to beat their man, Roger Taylor for the overall win - my very first. And it was one of the very few times that I outran Roger. Now, I am sure that some of that still exists today. But I am sure that it is less common. |
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28 Aug 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3846715) | #18 | ||
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8 entered, 7 raced.
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Tyres, entry fees, number of meetings, choice of venues, dates, hospitality, lack of promotion, availability of spares, running cost, rival series (for non-ST entries), and probably a few I've forgotten. Depending on who you speak to, any or all of the above are either a huge problem, a minor irritation, or not an issue at all; and everyone you speak to will give you a different combination of answer. |
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12 Sep 2018, 23:57 (Ref:3849748) | #19 | |||
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I know of at least 3 drivers that have 'Retired' from racing and between them they have access to 8 cars. There are other drivers that have found other cars to race in other classes, so no Peugeot 406, Opel Astra, Alfa 155 and extra Cavaliers. Although I have been told by one owner that he has the answer and is expecting to race all 3 of his Supertourers during 2019. I for one believe he will.. |
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13 Sep 2018, 07:22 (Ref:3849785) | #20 | |
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I thought this was a branch of the Goodwood thread about saloon cars
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