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Old 3 Aug 2011, 12:53 (Ref:2935376)   #126
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Another fairly rare bird (though probably less so in Japan, and I recall a couple in Belgium) the Honda Civic

Ray Armes turned up with a Graham Goode-prepared example midway through the 1989 BTCC season, and was right on the pace in the 1600cc class from the start.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...in/photostream

One of the Belgian cars at Spa the same year- think this is an earlier model.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard_of_leicester/5836849363/in/photostream
IIRC Mugen amongst others prepared these for the Japanese series, where they were very effective- the European privateer cars were less successful, we didn't really see the any results from a Honda in Group A until the Ray Armes car appeared in the UK

We've mentioned this one earlier in the thread, but it's a much better pic than the one I posted- Alex Postan's Renault 5 GT Turbo in the 1986 TT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antspho...57608209176086
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Old 10 Aug 2011, 14:20 (Ref:2938119)   #127
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More Dan Morgan pics on Flickr- 1982 Donington ETC this time, with some of the less common early Group A cars- Camaros, RX7s, Opel Monzas and Audi Coupes

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...th/6027392890/
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Old 13 Aug 2011, 17:51 (Ref:2939287)   #128
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...and exploring Richard Hilsden's pics on Flickr, another rare car in the BTCC- Mike Jordan's Peugeot 309

http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...57627283400681
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Old 13 Aug 2011, 18:23 (Ref:2939303)   #129
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...and exploring Richard Hilsden's pics on Flickr, another rare car in the BTCC- Mike Jordan's Peugeot 309

http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...57627283400681
The first detailed picture I have seen of the Jordan 309, so thanks for the link, KA.

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Old 16 Aug 2011, 15:48 (Ref:2941767)   #130
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I think there was also a 4 door AMG entered 6 litre Merc Sedan (not sure of the model type!) for Spa in either '88 or 89 as well? (may have been 2 car team?) Massively powerful and quick in straight line. Qualified pretty well IIRC, but overall wasn't really competitive against the M3's and RS500's! I expect those cars saw further action in the Nurby enduro's etc!!

I'm sure there's a few more that people ran in various national championships as well.....
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The pair of AMG-Mercedes 500 SECs. One for the 1989 24h Nürburgring and two for Spa, recording 3 DNFs. I think they only ever did these two events. Early season rumours of a big engined Mercedes DTM project was denied by AMG boss Hans-Werner Aufrecht, but turned out to be these two beauties:
Hans Heyer/Heiner Weiss/Walter Mertes
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1989/Spa-1989-07-23-005.jpg
Klaus Ludwig/Alain Cudini/Hans Heyer (again, it seems)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1989/Spa-1989-07-23-006.jpg
With similar configurations as the Holden Commodore it could have been an interesting battle, but likely only for second tier positions and it would probably have taken some development of the Merc to be in position to challenge the Commodore.

Just found a pic of the AMG Merc 500SEC at the Nurburgring 24 hours in '89. A question comes to mind- with the ETC already cancelled the previous year, and RS500s etc having already proven, as you suggest, that big-engined normally-aspirated cars were very much yesterday's news in Group A touring car racing, I can't shake off the thought that building and developing the SEC for just two races seems like a lot of effort for not very much return.

Did AMG have any further plans for the big coupe? With the Evo versions of the 190 already available to them, the SEC hardly seems a likely weapon for DTM or other sprint races by 1989- it's more the kind of car Mercedes might possibly have looked at if they'd wanted a potential outright winner in the ETC a few years earlier, before arrival of the M3 and RS500 changed the game...

Great-looking car, but it would have looked slightly more at home fighting it out with 635CSis, XJSs, Rovers, Volvos and VK Commodores than it did with RS500s and M3s...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627433803200

Last edited by KA; 16 Aug 2011 at 15:53.
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Old 16 Aug 2011, 19:26 (Ref:2941845)   #131
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Ah, seems my question from the Sierra thread has already been answered in the correct thread!!!

Good question KA, perhaps as you intimate this beast was originally conceived to compete a few years earlier but shelved for whatever reason? However I don't recall there being much mention of it in the motorsport press, it must've been a pretty good secret....

Or was it just some kind of mobile test bed for various electronics and running gear for something else - I can't imagine what for exactly but we know that manufacturers have done similar things over time with older cars to gather data for other stuff.

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Old 17 Aug 2011, 07:50 (Ref:2941996)   #132
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I never remember seeing that SEC back in the day, but what a fantastic looking car ! It would have brilliant if the FIA had managed to get the rules in such a way that bruisers like this thing and the Commodore could have been competitive against the RS500s. I guess MB probably theorized that normally aspirated power would be more reliable in the 24 hour endurance events and if the lump was big enough, not at too much of a disadvantage in terms of straight line speed.
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Old 17 Aug 2011, 14:50 (Ref:2942126)   #133
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Thinking about it, the 5.0 V8 was the same engine that powered the all conquering Saubers in the World group C championship at the time.

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Old 26 Aug 2011, 14:36 (Ref:2946379)   #134
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I think a Prelude made one appearance in the BTCC, though not a full Group A car- a production version usually raced in one of the Production Saloon series. Brands Hatch in 1988 rings a bell, but I don't recall the driver without looking up the result...
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I think it was either Des Winks or Martin Wray? A Uniroyal regular entry.
Another find in Richard Hilsden's pics on Flickr.

Brands Hatch 1988 (the Group C meeting, the BTCC race best-known for the race-long Rouse v Soper battle for the win).

Martin Wray's Prelude wisely tries to keep out of the way as Mike Smith pursues the Mike O'Brien Holden- The Smith/O'Brien scrap features prominently on the TV coverage from the onboard camera on the M3. (note the front bodywork damage on the M3, Mike was having a frustrating time trying to get past the big Holden, which was holding him up in the corners but pulling away on the straights, and had already given it what he described on the commentary as 'a little love touch to remind him I'm here', although I think the BMW had already taken a knock at the front earlier in the race)

Will Hoy in Prodrive's third M3 follows on behind.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...57627283400681

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkfLQLlC79o

Last edited by KA; 26 Aug 2011 at 14:45.
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Old 14 Sep 2011, 21:50 (Ref:2955642)   #135
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Heyer's Audi had a good career, it had started life as a Group C car in 1982. Was converted to Group A specs in late-1984.
Found a nice shot of the Heyer Audi in a thread of Nissan Mobil 500 race pics on a New Zealand forum

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...eyerAudi-2.jpg
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Old 24 Sep 2011, 10:35 (Ref:2960341)   #136
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Very early in this thread the Spa 1982 and '83 Mercedes-Benz 450SLC was brought up by chunterer. Claude Bourgoignie seems to have been the mover behind that project, but it had a twin:
http://cvc.com.sapo.pt/images/1982/1...rentes%202.jpg
http://circuitoviladoconde.com.sapo.pt/1982.htm
Look for the Grupo A2 results and the driver Sande e Castro. There's no use to look ahead for future results, because by 1983 he was racing a Jaguar XJ-S!

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A few shots of the Belgian 450SLC at Spa in 1983:
http://www.empire-auto.com/Duez/1983...pa_galerie.htm
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Old 27 Sep 2011, 19:53 (Ref:2961812)   #137
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A few shots of the Belgian 450SLC at Spa in 1983:
http://www.empire-auto.com/Duez/1983...pa_galerie.htm
Not a bad looking car when you think about it? Very purposeful and sleek.

shame we didn't get to see a proper factory blessed big Merc up against the Jags and Bimmers in the big class.
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Old 27 Mar 2012, 17:02 (Ref:3049520)   #138
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The early seasons of Group A brought out some real oddities, mostly hangovers from Group 1 I suspect?

I don't think I've seen too many pics of this one before- the Talbot Horizon of Stoffel & Thierfelder at the 1982 TT...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karting...57628057466012

Anyone know more about it?
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Old 27 Mar 2012, 18:48 (Ref:3049587)   #139
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The early seasons of Group A brought out some real oddities, mostly hangovers from Group 1 I suspect?

I don't think I've seen too many pics of this one before- the Talbot Horizon of Stoffel & Thierfelder at the 1982 TT...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karting...57628057466012

Anyone know more about it?
Ha ha as soon as I saw this pic when I followed the link to the set in the Metro thread. I knew immediately that it would be the latest addition to this thread!

Looks like it's in American Chrysler front profile spec to me?
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Old 27 Mar 2012, 19:53 (Ref:3049621)   #140
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Yes, see what you mean about the front bodywork.

It seems to have been run by Frensch Power from Germany- they're the guys who entered the little red 205GTi that ran around at the tail end of ETC grids in 1985/6 (with the same Haribo sponsorship)

http://www.frensch-power.com/media/7...03694cc215.jpg
http://www.frensch-power.com/media/7...03694ceaff.jpg

They seem to be longtime Chrysler/Peugeot dealers/specialists, and raced things like Simca Rallyes- they had one of those at the same TT as the Horizon....
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

They're still in business, and there's another pic of what looks like the same Horizon on their website, in what I guess might be some kind of Group 2-ish spec (no bumpers and a front spoiler at least!)
http://www.frensch-power.com/media/7...03694c4159.jpg

http://www.frensch-power.com/Galerie-80er.39838.html
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Old 28 Mar 2012, 13:25 (Ref:3050030)   #141
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Blimey if you can make a Sunbeam Horizon into a race car then you can make anything into one!
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Old 28 Mar 2012, 14:04 (Ref:3050042)   #142
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Maybe we want to sidebar this into the 'most inappropriate model made into a Group A car' ?
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Old 3 Jun 2019, 07:14 (Ref:3907659)   #143
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What about the awfull Maserati BiTurbo driven by Nick May in the BTCC

A fantastic article giving the full history of the Biturbo in the 1987 WTCC as well as the national championships that it competed in afterwards:

Boxy Breakdown - 1987 Maserati Biturbo
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 16:28 (Ref:3909146)   #144
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A fantastic article giving the full history of the Biturbo in the 1987 WTCC as well as the national championships that it competed in afterwards:

Boxy Breakdown - 1987 Maserati Biturbo
Great article - super interesting read.

Maserati eventually got its act together with the Biturbo derived Ghibli Cup, which became a formidable weapon in the Italian GT championship in the mid to late 1990s. Numerous wins and podiums, and beating 355s and 911s on a regular basis.
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Old 2 Aug 2019, 03:39 (Ref:3920759)   #145
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A question comes to mind- with the ETC already cancelled the previous year, and RS500s etc having already proven, as you suggest, that big-engined normally-aspirated cars were very much yesterday's news in Group A touring car racing, I can't shake off the thought that building and developing the SEC for just two races seems like a lot of effort for not very much return. [/URL]
KA,
The 500 SEC was developed in 1988 for the DTM, but the problem was the weight of 1340kg and 460bhp was too much for the tyres allowed in the DTM.

Running harder compound tyres at a reduced pace at Spa, M-B and AMG believed that the cars would be able to last the 24 hours.

What made the 500 SEC truly unique as a Group A car was that it retained the wood inlay dashboard and electrically operated windows of the road-going model.
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Old 2 Aug 2019, 06:44 (Ref:3920776)   #146
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KA,
The 500 SEC was developed in 1988 for the DTM, but the problem was the weight of 1340kg and 460bhp was too much for the tyres allowed in the DTM.

Running harder compound tyres at a reduced pace at Spa, M-B and AMG believed that the cars would be able to last the 24 hours.

What made the 500 SEC truly unique as a Group A car was that it retained the wood inlay dashboard and electrically operated windows of the road-going model.
It may not have had a wood inlay dashboard but Karl Jones' Duckhams RS500 that raced in the BTCC also retained its electric windows!
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Old 4 Aug 2019, 08:02 (Ref:3921091)   #147
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The Volvo 760 that was campaigned by VTR Racing in the Belgian Touring Car Championship from 1988 until 1992


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