[DTM] Race 7 - Nurburgring (GER), 27 July 2008

[helgi]

Eifelrennen! The grandstand is being rebuild now. So, apart of Eifel weather, that building dust is going to be a challeng for drivers.

As for the pace, Audi R14 and Mercedes C-klasse '08 are equal!

[helgi]

Raining!
Out:
Stoddart
Spengler
Albers
Jarvis
Legge

[helgi]

Rockenfeller out. Session is stopped

[helgi]

1 sector Tomczyk 50.546
2 sector Paffett 23.982
3 sector Tomczyk 23.854

[helgi]

Third segment is cancelled

[cos]

They've used Q1 results for the grid so Audi take top 3 spots (Tom, Rockenfeller, Tomcyzk). Merc aren't happy.

[Hazard]

Thanks. Sounds wacky. Shame Motors don't show the qually's anymore.

DTM rules mean the previously completed sessions times get used, which was Q1 since the red flag was in Q2. Mercedes are viewing that a little differently obviously, as Audi have done quite well out of it.

And as a result we have the most crazy DTM grid of the season

Grid

1 - Tom Kristensen - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2008 - 1:38.346


2 - Mike Rockenfeller - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2007 - 1:38.495


3 - Martin Tomczyk - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2008 - 1:38.584


4 - Gary Paffett - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2007 - 1:38.649


5 - Mattias Ekström - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2008 - 1:39.197


6 - Bernd Schneider - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2008 - 1:39.235


7 - Ralf Schumacher - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2007 - 1:39.397


8 - Maro Engel - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2007 - 1:39.462


9 - Timo Scheider - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2008 - 1:39.520


10 - Alexandre Prémat - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2007 - 1:39.551


11 - Markus Winkelhock - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2007 - 1:39.644


12 - Paul di Resta - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2008 - 1:39.773


13 - Jamie Green - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2008 - 1:39.829


14 - Mathias Lauda - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2007 - 1:39.961


15 - Susie Stoddart - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2007 - 1:40.367


16 - Bruno Spengler - Mercedes C-Klasse - DTM2008 - 1:40.517


17 - Christijan Albers - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2006 - 1:41.385


18 - Oliver Jarvis - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2007 - 1:41.484


19 - Katherine Legge - Audi A4 DTM - DTM2006 - 1:42.087

[cos]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Thanks. Sounds wacky. Shame Motors don't show the qually's anymore.

DTM rules mean the previously completed sessions times get used, which was Q1 since the red flag was in Q2. Mercedes are viewing that a little differently obviously, as Audi have done quite well out of it.

Yup, the order was Tomcyzk, Paffett, Schneider, Scheider, di Resta and Green at the time of the red flag (caused by Rockenfeller, lucky man).

[gomick]

A wet race would be very interesting - time for Ralf Schumacher to do something...

[helgi]

2008 DTM Sporting Regulations

48.5 If, upon decision of the Race Director, section 1 or 2 of qualifying is
stopped (see Article S 49), the corresponding section will not be resumed. All the
cars originally eligible to take part in the corresponding section which was stopped
are also eligible for the following section. The remaining time of the stopped section
will be added to the time for the following section. The interruption after the stopping
of the section will be as short as possible. In any case, there will be a minimum of 5 minutes before the beginning of the following section. All the information in relation
to time schedule, in particular the re-start time, will be published on page 7 of
the timing monitors.

If the scheduled time for section 3 is increased as a consequence of stopping section
2 (addition of remaining time in section 2), participants are permitted to complete
more than 8 laps in section 3.

If the 3rd section is stopped, Race Control will take all measures to resume the section
as quickly as possible. The race times achieved in the interrupted parts of this
section are added and will be 9 minutes minimum. The interruption between the
stopping and resuming of the section will be kept as short as possible. In any case,
there will be a minimum of 5 minutes before the restart (green lights) to section 3. A
minimum running time of 3 minutes will in all cases be respected for the remaining
part of the section, even if the total time of that section results in more than 9 minutes.
If section 3 is restarted after an interruption, the maximum number of laps (8)
specified in Article S 48.1c is no longer applicable.

All the information in relation to time schedule, in particular the re-start time, will be
published on page 7 of the timing monitors.

If the qualifying is stopped and cannot be re-started or if the qualifying must be
completely cancelled due to extraordinary circumstances, the starting grid will be
based upon the sections so far run and completed or upon the current Championship
standing if qualifying had to be completely cancelled.

[helgi]

The best race this season. Tough battles, strategy.. Real DTM!!!!!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by helgi

The best race this season. Tough battles, strategy.. Real DTM!!!!!

Thanks to wet track? (I haven't seen the race)

[helgi]

Wet track was only at the last few laps. Paffett was quick enough to battle with HWA. And different strategies were rather interesting.
So, strategy + tough battles at the track = Eifelrennen 2008. And only real 'phobs' will never agree.

[AxelF]

The race was better than the last ones.

But only due to different tyres and wet track. No real duels on the track like in WTCC, and the cars are still too fragile for a tough competition.

Its not a perspective, to have only good races when it rains or should...

Christian

[werner]

The 3 best Audi's where the ones that started from the pit-lane!

[Go_For_Pole]

Strategy is a relative term when it comes to this Audi's decision making today. Suicide is rather more appropriate.

[stedevil]

Very weird race including the qualifying and tire choices right before start. Lots of overtaking though, but with most of the 08 cars starting from the back, that was hardly surprising.

Overall, quite entertaining. Though perhaps not for the right reasons? And yes, bits and pieces of cars flying everywhere from the slightest of touches... at times even F1 cars seems to be more sturdy to accidental contact...

[gomick]

Go Bernd - life in the "old dog" yet....

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by AxelF

No real duels on the track like in WTCC

Yes, and Paffet just a tram driver. Nothing special.

I'd like to see every Nurburgring race in evening time. Great race. For Schneider and Paffet. And Ekstrom adn Scheider has a good race progress.

[helgi]

Oh,yes,yes! I've forgotten about that REAL cars with real ballast it's a true sport to feed the entertainment in every way and change regulations every day to equal everybody. No wonder they have 'real' battles just phobing. Didn't they try to clone drivers yet? That's a great idea for REAL racing

[gomick]

Whats going on with Gary Paffett

[AxelF]

Originally Posted by helgi

Oh,yes,yes! I've forgotten about that REAL cars with real ballast it's a true sport to feed the entertainment in every way and change regulations every day to equal everybody. No wonder they have 'real' battles just phobing. Didn't they try to clone drivers yet? That's a great idea for REAL racing

Ballast weights also worked in the old DTM (87-92), and made the racing good.
Why not use it? No one wants to see F1 cars with the body of a saloon, without being able to buy a sporty car from the manufacturer...

And also no one can equal cars with FWD or RWD and different concepts without using the weight rules.


My wishes for a good touring car series:

- close competition, many duels, much overtaking, etc.
- much competitors, many cars on the track
- possiblity for domestic teams, to start on their home track eventually
- many possible marques
- building a car without being a manufacturer with 10+ Mio. budget

Don't need 500PS and extreme aerodynamics, as this makes overtaking very difficult. You don't see the speed on TV...

Christian

[werner]

This debate goes on forever. I'd only like to add 2 things now:
-the current DTM also uses ballastweights, but not put on drivers but on cars, ie all the cars of the same brand and year have the same weight, but that weight is different from cars of other years and brand. A better idea IMO, since it equals the cars, but drivingperformance is less penalized.
-Since we won't ever agree completely about the ideal touringcarformat, it is nice to have both sorts of series.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by AxelF

1.Ballast weights also worked in the old DTM (87-92), and made the racing good.
2.No one wants to see F1 cars with the body of a saloon, without being able to buy a sporty car from the manufacturer...

1. Also it made big debates about weight reg. Good for politic - people talk about cars, and bad for sport - people don't talk about racing. DTM chose Class 1 way.
2. Road car and race car - two different things. You can't drive race car on the street and you can't race on road car. Race car can be production based, and it make it cheaper, but it is still race car. Not anyway cheaper - look at NASCAR, V8SC and old DTM - costs raised because teams must build race cars with close charactheristic with using road cars with different characteristics. Silhouetts way make all cars more equal.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by werner

-Since we won't ever agree completely about the ideal touringcarformat, it is nice to have both sorts of series.

I'd like to see DTM and Superstars in one weekend. 3 30-min Superstars races (under BTCC reg) and 2 45-min DTM races (old DTM). All over the Europe. Yes, it would be great Gross Preiss Tourenwagen