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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest F1 driver?
Lewis Hamilton 22 22.00%
Michael Schumacher 11 11.00%
Juan Manuel Fangio 6 6.00%
Alain Prost 7 7.00%
Ayrton Senna 22 22.00%
Jackie Stewart 0 0%
Jim Clark 17 17.00%
Alberto Ascari 0 0%
Fernando Alonso 1 1.00%
Niki Lauda 3 3.00%
Stirling Moss 2 2.00%
Sebastian Vettel 0 0%
Nigel Mansell 1 1.00%
Nelson Piquet 0 0%
James Hunt 0 0%
Mika Hakkinen 0 0%
Giles Villeneuve 2 2.00%
Max Verstappen 0 0%
Nico Rosberg 0 0%
Jack Brabham 4 4.00%
Carlos Reutemann 0 0%
Jochen Rindt 0 0%
Ronnie Peterson 1 1.00%
Kimi Raikkonen 1 1.00%
Graham Hill 0 0%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 31 May 2021, 18:34 (Ref:4054098)   #401
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in relation to the GOAT thread, perhaps perseverance though injury should not be dismissed as a GOAT attribute?

The top of my list is Niki Lauda and perseverance though injury is one of the reasons. To go through what he did and to come back from that accident and miss retaining the WDC by one point and then the following year, win that second WDC is truly phenomenal.
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Old 31 May 2021, 20:14 (Ref:4054127)   #402
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110 F1 drivers have won a race (or 99 if we don't count Indy 500 winners).


The drivers with most podiums without a win are Nick Heidfeld (13), Stefan Johansson (12), Chris Amon (11), Romain Grosjean (10), Jean Behra, Martin Brundle, Eddie Cheever (9 each) and Luigi Villoresi (8).


I think that any "top F1 drivers list" should stop counting at that.
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Old 31 May 2021, 20:22 (Ref:4054129)   #403
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Sorry, but statistics don’t tell the whole story. What about the lost talents like Bellof, Pryce and Brise? Their stats aren’t great, but they did enough to warrant places on people’s 100 or 200 lists
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Old 31 May 2021, 20:54 (Ref:4054136)   #404
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
110 F1 drivers have won a race (or 99 if we don't count Indy 500 winners).


The drivers with most podiums without a win are Nick Heidfeld (13), Stefan Johansson (12), Chris Amon (11), Romain Grosjean (10), Jean Behra, Martin Brundle, Eddie Cheever (9 each) and Luigi Villoresi (8).


I think that any "top F1 drivers list" should stop counting at that.
Including all race winners I can agree with.
Including drivers because of having a lot of podiums, less so.

Winning a race is a mark of beating the field (including presumably your teammate in the same car). Getting a lot of podiums is a suggestion that you just had a lengthy career, and that every time you raced someone did better.

In golf, you might be referred to as a 'choker'.
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Old 31 May 2021, 21:50 (Ref:4054148)   #405
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Some like Amon and Jarier were just really unlucky, others like Brundle, Warwick and Johansson weren’t in the right place at right time and some like Heidfeld were very consistent, if not world class
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 03:37 (Ref:4054306)   #406
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The top of my list is Niki Lauda and perseverance though injury is one of the reasons. To go through what he did and to come back from that accident and miss retaining the WDC by one point and then the following year, win that second WDC is truly phenomenal.
In addition to that side of it I believe his contribution to the engineering side of the Ferrari rebirth in the mid 70's was more from him in terms of involvement with one man, Mauro Forghieri and was a greater achievement than the part Schumacher took in the late 90's when it was a far more structured set up with many more technical boffins, and management.

I believe Lauda was more an influence and contributor individually to the teams resurgence in the mid 70's (in the Enzo run days (with Luca di Montezemolo) than Schumacher was in the back end of the 90's with Byrne Brawn and other high calibre individuals, under the overall management of a less emotionally involved (than Enzo) Todt.

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Old 2 Jun 2021, 08:27 (Ref:4054321)   #407
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Lauda really did get Ferrari together in the 70s. He wasn't afraid to point out the faults with the Ferrari, which hardly anyone else did
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 08:43 (Ref:4054323)   #408
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There is a good article on the dropped points system and its various ramifications for anyone interested here:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-...ropped-scores/
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 18:41 (Ref:4054376)   #409
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There is a good article on the dropped points system and its various ramifications for anyone interested here:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-...ropped-scores/


i see this picture from that article and wonder if the purpose of dropping race scores was to mitigate the often occurring non sporting personal grudges/agendas that affected the outcomes/points awarded at certain GPs?

edit: not sure why the image is not resizing. sorry
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 19:14 (Ref:4054379)   #410
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If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 21:22 (Ref:4054390)   #411
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If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.
Not for me....

Anyhow.....

"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."
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Old 2 Jun 2021, 22:14 (Ref:4054394)   #412
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If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.
Not necessarily. Just for those who base GOAT on statistical success which, as we know, is only one part of the picture.
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 10:34 (Ref:4054421)   #413
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Also without dropped scores there would be no one who won the GP title on two and four wheels
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 11:44 (Ref:4054430)   #414
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Not for me....

Anyhow.....

"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."

If anything, F1 spelt backwards is 1F,
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 11:48 (Ref:4054431)   #415
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Not necessarily. Just for those who base GOAT on statistical success which, as we know, is only one part of the picture.

Very true, stats are just part of it.
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4054434)   #416
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Also without dropped scores there would be no one who won the GP title on two and four wheels

Graham Hill would have won it by one point, instead he lost it to Surtees by one point.
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 13:00 (Ref:4054440)   #417
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If anything, F1 spelt backwards is 1F,
Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 16:03 (Ref:4054458)   #418
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Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....
I'm pretty sure that it was something that Murray Walker once said (and it that's the case, as far as I'm concerned it is part of Motor-Racing folklore).
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 16:18 (Ref:4054462)   #419
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I'm pretty sure that it was something that Murray Walker once said (and it that's the case, as far as I'm concerned it is part of Motor-Racing folklore).
Indeed so.....
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 23:05 (Ref:4054521)   #420
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And Clive James said it on the 84 Season Review, in reference to the Monaco GP only being half points, which was very crucial in the end
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 23:12 (Ref:4054523)   #421
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If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.
However the driver would modify his approach to winning the championship depending on the scoring system.
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Old 3 Jun 2021, 23:17 (Ref:4054525)   #422
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Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....
Works if you use the Roman numeral Ayse.
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Old 4 Jun 2021, 08:26 (Ref:4054556)   #423
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However the driver would modify his approach to winning the championship depending on the scoring system.
Very true. I think the best example of that is Piquet in the 1983 SA GP, where he dropped to third after leading most of the way, just to make sure of the title
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Old 4 Jun 2021, 10:26 (Ref:4054570)   #424
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Works if you use the Roman numeral Ayse.
That is true!
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Old 11 Jun 2021, 13:58 (Ref:4055731)   #425
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