2012 Bathurst 12 Hour - 24-26 February

[Jacal]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Why for instance do all the support series people pack up and leave on Saturday evening. They are motor race competitors, who by their very nature aren't much interested in sticking round to watch someone else doing the same thing. But they could be interested in staying if there were things happening at the circuit.

Hi Old Tony, - Cost, We all spent $1500 or thereabouts on entry, $2.20 / litre for 50 litres of 98 unleaded I can buy down the road for $1.60 / litre (we only used about 30 adn did all sessions), $1300 on a set of tyres, $450 a night for accomodation for driver and crew, food, drinks etc.. I and atleast half our field save to get there to race and in many cases it costs more to do a support race here than the entire rest of the season. Someone in our category did the sums and by the time all the costs including, engine, prep, transport, time off work, safety car laps etc are counted in it cost around $700 a racing lap. Is it any wonder we don't want to spend another night staying there to watch someone else, we'd rather save the $450 for accomodation and go and do another meeting.

By the way I stayed the extra night, watched the first hour then drove home so I could unpack the trailer and be ready for work the next day. We are not all (very few of us are) made of money.

Still I wouldn't miss the opportunity to go back and race there again for an instant.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Jacal

Hi Old Tony, - Cost,
By the way I stayed the extra night, watched the first hour then drove home so I could unpack the trailer and be ready for work the next day. We are not all (very few of us are) made of money.
Still I wouldn't miss the opportunity to go back and race there again for an instant.

Fair enough, us old retired blokes sometimes forget others have to still work for a living.
Right across the board, from the upper levels of the 12hr entry to the support events, everyone says it is too expensive. The question for the event then is how do they either cut costs to cut entrant costs, or can the work out a way to significantly increase exposure and income for the weekend. The latter should alow some relief to entrants, or at least give them an exposure level to justify sponsorship.
I guess the financials for the meeting are "comercial in confidence" but I would imagine that NSW Events and the Bathurst City Council would have some oversight. Are expenses that high, or is someone making a killing?
By the way @$60-00 for 4nights for a campsite with very well maintained facilities the BCC is providing great value. Congratulations to them.

[James69181]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Fair enough, us old retired blokes sometimes forget others have to still work for a living.
Right across the board, from the upper levels of the 12hr entry to the support events, everyone says it is too expensive. The question for the event then is how do they either cut costs to cut entrant costs, or can the work out a way to significantly increase exposure and income for the weekend. The latter should alow some relief to entrants, or at least give them an exposure level to justify sponsorship.
I guess the financials for the meeting are "comercial in confidence" but I would imagine that NSW Events and the Bathurst City Council would have some oversight. Are expenses that high, or is someone making a killing?
By the way @$60-00 for 4nights for a campsite with very well maintained facilities the BCC is providing great value. Congratulations to them.

My view which is worth nothing says cut the price in half for the 12 HOUR and you double the entries. Can't beleive Bathurst Council don't get onto the "promoter" to help the ecomomy in Their town and yes someone is making a killing !

[alfacors]

Get the Council to reduce the cost of circuit hire and I am sure the entry fees will drop..... more entries leads to more personnell needing food and accomm. More entries leads to more spectators.... more food and accomm. Race gains more entries and more exposure etc. Win-win-win. But who's going to make the first move? I still think losing the FOSC meeting over Easter was a disaster for the local economy..... so many hotels, pubs etc lost a stack of revenue from that weekend. it was an affordable event which meant more money was available for booze and meals in town, and 450-ish cars entered meant lots of drivers, crew, and families around to spend the $$

[rik]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Get the Council to reduce the cost of circuit hire and I am sure the entry fees will drop.....

How much more does it cost to hire Bathurst vs a permanent track like PI or EC?

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by James69181

My view which is worth nothing says cut the price in half for the 12 HOUR and you double the entries. Can't beleive Bathurst Council don't get onto the "promoter" to help the ecomomy in Their town and yes someone is making a killing !

No way you can double the entries for the support events at the 12hr, they are at circuit capacity already. It may have some effect on the 12hr event though where more start6ers would help.
The loss of FOSC though is possibly an area where circuit hire costs were the fly in the ointment. Was that the direct reason? Did other factors come into play? What were potential entries looking like before the plug was pulled?
The point about Mt.Panorama is its iconic status. As Jacal said, even at that cost he would do it again. Is the whole thing a matter of fixing a price point because there are so many people who want some laps that the promoters can charge whatever the market will bear?

[Shane001]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

By the way @$60-00 for 4nights for a campsite with very well maintained facilities the BCC is providing great value. Congratulations to them.

This ^^
We've camped the last 2 years in a row at Easter, and camping again this weekend. Definitely part of the Bathurst experience, sitting around the campfire at night with a few brews.
Doesn't help the local economy much though, but we always buy our food etc at Bathurst rather than take it with us so I guess that helps.
I think a major part of the cost of any event at Bathurst is the actual cost of the track hire though.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by alfacors

Get the Council to reduce the cost of circuit hire and I am sure the entry fees will drop..... more entries leads to more personnell needing food and accomm. More entries leads to more spectators.... more food and accomm. Race gains more entries and more exposure etc. Win-win-win. But who's going to make the first move? I still think losing the FOSC meeting over Easter was a disaster for the local economy..... so many hotels, pubs etc lost a stack of revenue from that weekend. it was an affordable event which meant more money was available for booze and meals in town, and 450-ish cars entered meant lots of drivers, crew, and families around to spend the $$

Post of the day. It's not the council's job to make money out of the weekend. It's the council's job to ensure that local business has that oppurtunity.

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

No way you can double the entries for the support events at the 12hr, they are at circuit capacity already.

sorry, massively disagree, been out with 57 cars round there no problem, it's a long cct, I reckon ~70 would be about the natural limit for an endurance race

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Post of the day. It's not the council's job to make money out of the weekend. It's the council's job to ensure that local business has that oppurtunity.

Shame that Councils rarely understand this.

[Oldtony]

I was talking about the SUPPORT events. At the B12 meeting all those events had entries of 55 to 57. I understand this is the legal capacity rating of the circuit. Don't know if an endurance event would have a greater entry limit. In the 60s and 70s I understand the 500(mile) limit was 63 starters and they used to accept reserves over that who got a start if someone failed to qualify.
The BCC certainly shouldn't be looking to make a profit, but it is also not the job of the ratepayers to subsidise motor racing. I also think you will find that it is the State Govt. through NSW Events that sets the circuit hire price.
The figures I would like to see are what the "organiser" collects and what he pays out.

[GTRMagic]

Hats off to the car above... it claimed back the outright Bathurst lap record for a formula car earlier today... awesome stuff!



Mr Simonsen and friends will just have to come back next year to try and knock it off...

[ForumNick]

Originally Posted by Natsoft

Current Race Lap Record Is 2:04.6187 Set On 08/04/2012 By Chris Gilmour (QLD) In A Dallara F307

...

[ff s conscience]

anyone have sector times?

[rich07]

Great to see an open wheeler hold the record again.

I just wish the WEC/ALMS would visit Bathurst then a sportscar would hold the record and perhaps forever. Just imagine an R18 in anger around the mountain. Breaking the 2min barrier would be a mere formality...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

anyone have sector times?

They arent available on the standard Natsoft website, you would need the printed racescore sheets for them...

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

They arent available on the standard Natsoft website, you would need the printed racescore sheets for them...

I know..

You got them?

Anyone?

[pplater]

Have you guys seen the video? Looks flat from the cutting to the esses. Braking into the chase is so deep you would need James Cameron's new submarine to film it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRrQeZN9Mt8

[Penelope PitStop]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Simonsen and friends will just have to come back next year to try and knock it off...

Given that F3 media were touting sub 2 minute times, I thought being just 0.32 under Allan Simonsen’s time was a bit of let-down.

Simonsen (and friends) should have no real difficulty reclaiming that record. Pity that the 'powers that be' currently appear intent on on ensuring there’s little (or no) opportunity for them to do so - but that is a story for another day...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Penelope PitStop

Given that F3 media were touting sub 2 minute times, I thought being just 0.32 under Allan Simonsen’s time was a bit of let-down.

Simonsen (and friends) should have no real difficulty reclaiming that record. Pity that the 'powers that be' currently appear intent on on ensuring there’s little (or no) opportunity for them to do so - but that is a story for another day...

I never quite understood the talking up of a sub 2m laptime.. when it was going to be very very difficult on firstly a dirty track, and with pilots who werent familiar with the place...

The video clip above seemed like that car ran out of revs a little on Conrod... would have been difficult to gear the car too.. a really long top gear to make the top speed would be nigh on useless anywhere else...

Will there be a B12 in 2013?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I never quite understood the talking up of a sub 2m laptime.. when it was going to be very very difficult on firstly a dirty track, and with pilots who werent familiar with the place...

The video clip above seemed like that car ran out of revs a little on Conrod... would have been difficult to gear the car too.. a really long top gear to make the top speed would be nigh on useless anywhere else...

Agree - not so much for your reasons (coz the track would have cleaned up over the weekend & the pilots should be able to work the track out through the course of the weekend too) but due to suitability of modern open wheel cars for a circuit like Bathurst.

With relatively little power, F3 cars would normally make a lot of time through corners and the long straights and climbs at the mountain clearly erode that benefit over the course of a lap relative to sports or touring cars.

Thing that I find interesting is that after the chest beating from those that talk prior to the meeting, only two F3 cars went under Alan's time and then only during one of the weekend's races.

[Simon S]

[QUOTE=Tourer;3055642]Agree - not so much for your reasons (coz the track would have cleaned up over the weekend & the pilots should be able to work the track out through the course of the weekend too) /QUOTE]

sorry?

you having a laugh? track got more oil on it every hour over the weekend, never seen so many flaggs and oil spills, Group N might just as well be called the Exxon Valdez class...

[alfacors]

Aussie Racing Car laid oil from Reid Park all the way to the left hander at McPhillamy the race before Formula 3 set their time. They also did it under race conditions, not on an open track supersprint (don't get me started on how that constitutes a "race").

Here's a phone pic from where I was for race 2



And the F3 guys were saying anything between sub 2m to 2:06. No one really knew how the cars would handle the climb up the Mountain, or whether they would max out the gearing down Conrod. As it was, all th eteams who went to the longer Macau spec gearing ended up changing back to Phillip Island with Tailwind spec after Practice 1.

[Penelope PitStop]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Will there be a B12 in 2013?

I believe so, Bathurst Council seem accepting of the status quo - although there are elections in September, so perhaps fresh faces and thinking will emerge.

If not, Allan et al have little chance on the lap record. The B12 is likely to continue imposing an artifical threshold pre race start to prevent elimination of slow cars. Not sure a low 2:04 during the race proper is do-able, although others (FFS?) may disagree. What other opportunities are there for GT cars at Bathurst? The 2012 calendar for MtP looks pretty bleak. Aside from the B1000 (no GT), just 2 other events are listed, both 'run' Mr O'Brien, both now done and dusted.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thing that I find interesting is that after the chest beating from those that talk prior to the meeting, only two F3 cars went under Alan's time and then only during one of the weekend's races.

Same here. And both were on the final 2 laps of that race. Natsoft timing was strange as well, originally there were no 4's then later on it was re-set/reloaded. To me, F3's involvement felt contrived – e.g. 18 ‘entries’ v 10 starters, 30 minute races v 20 minutes for other non-enduros. Perhaps F3 paid a premium, if not it seems a poor allocation of a limited resource…

Originally Posted by alfacors

And the F3 guys were saying anything between sub 2m to 2:06.

Media releases re sub 2m aside, F3's website quotes Winslow: "...I think a high 2:01..." and Gilmour: "... something like 2:01 and 2:02 ..."

[Tourer]

[QUOTE=Simon S;3055698]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Agree - not so much for your reasons (coz the track would have cleaned up over the weekend & the pilots should be able to work the track out through the course of the weekend too) /QUOTE]

sorry?

you having a laugh? track got more oil on it every hour over the weekend, never seen so many flaggs and oil spills, Group N might just as well be called the Exxon Valdez class...

No, not having a laugh as the track would have been cleared of dust and rubbered up over the weekend although I didn't know about the oil. Standard thing at Bathurst, the track speed comes to you as it de-dusts and rubbers up.

Funnily enough according to Alfacors' photo above, the ARCs laid oil just before the race in which the F3s set the new record time so they clearly were able to cope with the oil as the race progressed.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by pplater

Have you guys seen the video? Looks flat from the cutting to the esses. Braking into the chase is so deep you would need James Cameron's new submarine to film it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRrQeZN9Mt8

Well I'm impressed. F3 2l is presumably well down on straight line speed with all that aero and strangled horse power so had to make it all up on the corners. Some serious commitmentas well.

I wonder he can get them both in such a small cockpit!