What is Aston Martin up to?

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by veeten

Don't say you weren't warned...

Don't spoil the party so early Let us dream until V8 bi-turbo is confirmed or this project is dead again

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

Interesting development and great if true. Reported on motorsport.com but no news about it on Sportscar media websites (sportscar 365 and dailysportscar) making me question a little bit the validity of the report.

Graham Goodwin has talked a fair bit about a Valkyrie programme on TWISC. So it's good to see multiple media outlets with the same sense.

[broadrun96]

And there have been multiple reports on the project on DSC in their daily updates. Once there is a full confirmed project I'm sure they'll have the appropriate article an background

[Sodemo]

Is a V12 feasible? Their current V12 is approaching 1000bhp? So would they have to use a lower rev limit or air restrictors or something to knock the power down?

[Coach Ep]

No rev limits on the V12 please!

[veeten]

It is precisely the rules at present that are driving the change away from large capacity ICEs, and moving further towards hybrid systems involving engines V8 and smaller. Notice the manufacturers at present that have V10s and V12s in their racing inventory, and yet, what do they build with?
Remember, it wasn't until the announcement of LMDh that not only caused a momentum shift in the number of manufacturers to enter, but also made AM pause their LMH program, along with a few others.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by veeten

also made AM pause their LMH program, along with a few others

It was a convenient excuse for AM to explain axing their LMH program more that a true reason for that to happen.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Like the look of it so far. Especially in that colour scheme. Can't wait to see how it goes against the others next year. Either way it's good to have a name like Aston back in the top class

Next year.....? I think not.

[veeten]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Next year.....? I think not.

Exactly, in the article it is slated for possible entry by '25. That's a year to asses what will be built.

[Richard117]

Originally Posted by veeten

It is precisely the rules at present that are driving the change away from large capacity ICEs, and moving further towards hybrid systems involving engines V8 and smaller. Notice the manufacturers at present that have V10s and V12s in their racing inventory, and yet, what do they build with?
Remember, it wasn't until the announcement of LMDh that not only caused a momentum shift in the number of manufacturers to enter, but also made AM pause their LMH program, along with a few others.

Smaller engines? Porsche had a 2 litre V4 in LMP1 and grew to a 4,6 litre V8 in LMDh. Same for Toyota, 2,4 litre in LMP1 and 3,5 litre for the GR010.

Hypercar/LMDh are much heavier than LMP1 was. The rules are pushing them to bigger engines to compensate that extra weight.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Richard117

Smaller engines? Porsche had a 2 litre V4 in LMP1 and grew to a 4,6 litre V8 in LMDh. Same for Toyota, 2,4 litre in LMP1 and 3,5 litre for the GR010.

Hypercar/LMDh are much heavier than LMP1 was. The rules are pushing them to bigger engines to compensate that extra weight.

Right! I think less engine work to make the power is easier for the teams using bigger engines. The power curve is restricted anyway. Look at Cadillac and their big V8.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard117

Smaller engines? Porsche had a 2 litre V4 in LMP1 and grew to a 4,6 litre V8 in LMDh. Same for Toyota, 2,4 litre in LMP1 and 3,5 litre for the GR010.

Hypercar/LMDh are much heavier than LMP1 was. The rules are pushing them to bigger engines to compensate that extra weight.

Yeah, the logic isn't strong with some of the comments along the way. Most do not have modern V10 or V12 prototype ready engines in their inventory, even the V8s they've pulled out aren't ancient

[veeten]

Originally Posted by Richard117

Smaller engines? Porsche had a 2 litre V4 in LMP1 and grew to a 4,6 litre V8 in LMDh. Same for Toyota, 2,4 litre in LMP1 and 3,5 litre for the GR010.

What I meant was smaller than 5.5L engines, and that, under the rules, be production based. The Porsche V8 was not only a production based unit, it was also from the family that ran in RS Spyder, and the original Cayenne SUV. The Toyota V6 has similar connections. Not to mention, Ferrari's 3L 120° V6 also resides in both the road and race versions of the 296 GT, the Lambo's engine is derived from their Urus SUV, BMW uses a previous DTM V8 for theirs, and Cadillac is using a newly created version of the V8 that also sits in the C8 Corvette, both road and race, which has absolutely has no connection with the 6.2L LS/LT V8, nor the Northstar/Aurora of the early 2000's, or the Corvette LT-1 twin cam, 4-valve V8 from the early 90's.
These, and many otbers, are here or already coming for the same reason: cost effectiveness. This allows for upgrades and increases in to that will more than compensate, without having to make drastic changes. The present outputs are their base, not their limit, which can be raised if called for by the governing bodies. The newer teams/manufacturers will get a good basis to work with, far better than both the back end of LMP1, or for that matter, early LMH.

Hypercar/LMDh are much heavier than LMP1 was. The rules are pushing them to bigger engines to compensate that extra weight.

The only change here is that you use the same, if not similar, hybrid systems with more easily affordable, as well as scalable, ICEs. As for the chassis', the original weight of LMHs was at 1100Kg, whereas LMDhs are at 1035Kg. Reasons as to why Toyota is developing their next car closer to the lighter one.
Of course some would say that it makes them similar to LMP2s, but they are limited to the output of that Gibson V8, with no hybrid, no turbos, and no aerodynamic or body style changes. while using the "spine" and designing the outer body to the manufacturer's wishes, it makes them more recognizable to the public. Not to mention, less costly.

[hondafan37]

just a simple question:
Is the Aston Valkyria developed by a private team going to be a winner?
If that is not the case, then what is the point of a V8 turbo?
The Aston Valkyrie with the V12 is the car even if it doesn't win anything,
It is the Strawberry on the cake that the WEC needs now!!!
Isotta Fraschini...... V6 Turbo.....everyone already has that!!!
Are you going to make a winning car?
If that is not the case, why not something iconic? winner or not?
A V12 is iconic like the Mazda 787b (It had a rotary engine but with a sound similar to the V12)., won Le Mans in 1991 and is more iconic than Audi's 13 victories...... The Ferrari 333 SP is more iconic than Audi's 13 victories......
So for me a Valkyrie without the V12 makes no sense!!!

[hondafan37]

I have the feeling that if the Glikenhaus had had a V12 the car would have sponsors now and would be racing now.

[Adam43]

The rotary does not sound like a V12. V12s sound good. The Mazda was a nice color though.

One thing is certain. If we don’t get a V12 in the series soon it will be dead within a year.

And if we do get it they will have to sell diapers at circuits because the fans are going to wet their pants.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by veeten

Exactly, in the article it is slated for possible entry by '25. That's a year to asses what will be built.

Ah I see. Shame we will have to wait another year, but obviously they need to prepare fully. The important thing is the program is starting.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Ah I see. Shame we will have to wait another year, but obviously they need to prepare fully. The important thing is the program is starting.

Probably.... Possibly.... Maybe....

[GT6]

you forgot "hopefully" andrew

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

you forgot "hopefully" andrew

Yes, that too!

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by veeten

What I meant was smaller than 5.5L engines, and that, under the rules, be production based. The Porsche V8 was not only a production based unit, it was also from the family that ran in RS Spyder, and the original Cayenne SUV. The Toyota V6 has similar connections. Not to mention, Ferrari's 3L 120° V6 also resides in both the road and race versions of the 296 GT, the Lambo's engine is derived from their Urus SUV, BMW uses a previous DTM V8 for theirs, and Cadillac is using a newly created version of the V8 that also sits in the C8 Corvette, both road and race, which has absolutely has no connection with the 6.2L LS/LT V8, nor the Northstar/Aurora of the early 2000's, or the Corvette LT-1 twin cam, 4-valve V8 from the early 90's.

Porsche engine comes from the RS Spyder through the 918 road car, but has NOTHING to do with the Cayenne : it is a pure racing engine brought to the road and then brought back to the racetrack.
Ferrari 499P V6 has the same layout as the 296 road car, but the block has different mechanical capabilities as it is fully stressed between the tub and the rear assembly (gearbox+suspension+wheels). It is not the case in the 296. So it is a bespoke racing engine, same at Peugeot, Toyota, Glickenhaus and Vanwall. You can also add Alpine (Mecachrome) and BMW (a DTM racing engine is not a road car engine) to that list.
Cadillac case is close to Ferrari : the engine has a famous Chevy layout, but is fully stressed and has a crossplane crankshaft. It is not related to the C8 powerplant. I don't know what is going on at Lamborghini, but all the other hypercars do have racing engines in the engine bay.
However, I can agree with you on the cost thing for LMDH (except Cadillac) : manufacturers made their choices with a view on cost efficiency. They selected existing successful racing engines as basis of work to the LMDH regulation. At Acura, they did develop a whole new engine with a plan to use it later in IndyCar, so again with cost management in mind. Which is exactly what the class is all about.

[Sodemo]

Can an NA V12 be competitive against the other drivetrain types when taking into account things like fuel consumption and other factors?

[Steve McQ]

Absolutely, thanks to the BoP. Remember : engines get homologated once the have gone testing on a bench under the ACO supervision. They know exactly what power, torque and fuel consumption any engine is able to do. That's why even before the 2023 season began, some engines had less max power than others, or less energy available per stint etc... on the BoP tables. Efficient engines (hello Ferrari) get (a bit) penalized by the BoP.
Hence, a 6.0L normally aspirated engine has a chance under the current rules.

[hondafan37]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...uple-of-years/

Speaking with Sportscar365, James wouldn’t deny the team’s desire to eventually race in the top class but stressed that its focus remains in GT racing for the time being.
James said that the team intends to continue with a similar program in 2024, with the goal of again having Aston Martin Vantage GT3s in both the GTD Pro and GTD classes of the WeatherTech Championship next year, alongside a single-car LMGT3 entry in the WEC.
While the team owns an Aston Martin Valkyrie AMR Pro, James said the suggestion of converting the track day car into a LMH machine would be wide of the mark, suggesting that a bespoke car would need to be built from the ground-up with full factory involvement.

“I don’t think a privateer team could do it,” he said. “I think it has to be a factory thing. It’s an intricate process. An AMR Pro is definitely not a LMH car.

“It’s lighter, it’s more downforce. If they would race a derivative of that car, I would have thought it would have had to be more of a bespoke piece.

“It’s not as simple of a process of changing the wings on it and run it.”

[S griffin]

Interesting article there. I can understand they wouldn’t want to move up to the top class, however I doubt they will get any help from AM considering how much the manufacturer is now focusing on the top class. So it might be trickier for James’ team