The Annual Race Licence Medical Thread 2010 (Split)

[Chris Wilson]

Does anyone else find the MSA rules on medicals a bit confusing? I am over 54, have, and want to renew an International C race licence, and passed a stress ecg, and a normal medical last March (2009) I read the rules as saying I do not need another stress ecg test yet, but that my application would need a fresh mediacal section signed by my GP. I had to ring the MSA over another matter, and for reasons unknown I decided to just check I was correct about the medicals. I was told I needed to do nothing other than send money on line. I did this, and received confirmation my licence is now en route to me. I am sure I have wasted several fee payments to my GP having assumed that each December I would be needing a new medical signing. Am I just thick, or are the rules a little ambiguous to others?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Chris Wilson

Does anyone else find the MSA rules on medicals a bit confusing? I am over 54, have, and want to renew an International C race licence, and passed a stress ecg, and a normal medical last March (2009) I read the rules as saying I do not need another stress ecg test yet, but that my application would need a fresh mediacal section signed by my GP. I had to ring the MSA over another matter, and for reasons unknown I decided to just check I was correct about the medicals. I was told I needed to do nothing other than send money on line. I did this, and received confirmation my licence is now en route to me. I am sure I have wasted several fee payments to my GP having assumed that each December I would be needing a new medical signing. Am I just thick, or are the rules a little ambiguous to others?

Steve is making a wonderful and generous gesture here, even though I apparently won't be needing an MOT this year, thank you for you charitable spirit!

I hope you're not thick...because I have exactly the same confusion as you.........I've been debating with another competitor who says that a medical effectively lasts 12 months, so since I like you had my medical in March, shouldn't need another if I renew before then.....but I read the "Licence Notes" as saying if the medical was over 3 months ago it needs revalidating........its jolly confusing...at least for those of us of an advanced age Guess I'll ring the MSA.....


EDIT: reading the thread below "how long is a Go Racing pack valid" there are people there who have had to get a medical revalidated because it was 4 months old......so is this a typical MSA left hand, right hand disconformity?

[Tim Falce]

I've split this from this thread. Please feel free to post here any questions you may have on the race medical or ECGs or have a rant about how hard done by we all are with doctors medical fees.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I've split this from this thread. Please feel free to post here any questions you may have on the race medical or ECGs or have a rant about how hard done by we all are with doctors medical fees.

any definitive answers would be jolly welcome too !

[Chris Wilson]

Likewise, it was the 3 month mention that I found, and still find, confusing. The MSA helpline man was adamant that I need not renew though, but couldn't explain why in a manner I could follow.... I wonder how many other licence renewers are having needless medicals?

[Al Weyman]

Just do it then if you have been told its in order.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Chris Wilson

Likewise, it was the 3 month mention that I found, and still find, confusing. The MSA helpline man was adamant that I need not renew though, but couldn't explain why in a manner I could follow.... I wonder how many other licence renewers are having needless medicals?

What Al says, go for it. I've just gone online to try and do mine and all I got was

[Chris Wilson]

I did it on Monday and the licence is en route. They said the web site was up the Suwannee and it was rejecting applications out left right and centre, but to keep trying. If in doubt a phone call quoting your 2009 licence number should get you the verdict from the horse's mouth.

[banbury]

Perfectly in order.

Been doing it for about the past 3 applications.Always have my medical in Feb that way it lasts for 2 applications.

All money saved is welcome.

[Chris Wilson]

Indeed, licence arrived the other day, as you say, more to spend on the car

[emicen]

What is actually involved in the medical? Looking at the form it seems to just be bloody pressure, rough eyesight and statement that irony have any past dodgy conditions. Is that it or do they need to do anything more indepth? I had one when I was 8 for my karting licence but haven't had one since, infact, haven't seen my doc in about 5 years, wonder if he'll even remember me!

[Patrick Sumner]

Interesting. Last February my reading of the 2009 Comp Licence Notes Section 26 para 1 page 3 indicated to me that after 3 months a medical was no longer valid. Down from 6 months the previous year. This really irritated me as it took away flexibility as to whether you may or may not race, thus pay for a licence at short notice. I wrote to MSA asking why, received a very prompt call from Head of Customer Services who said he had no idea why this was done, nor had anyone ever asked. He followed this up with a letter confirming that the MSA is obligated to adopt FIA regulations and that the FIA should be able to tell me why the change occurred. At that point I threw in the towel, I could smell that nasty pong of EUland.
My reading of the 2010 Notes section 10.1.2 page 3 indicates to me that nothing has changed. Perhaps the MSA has realised that handing out a 12 month licence based on a 3 month medical doesn't add up and is ignoring the FIA, or perhaps like all bureaucracys they haven't a clue.

[R59]

I have an intl.C, I'm 44, so don't need an ECG yet, and it told me to go forth.
I had my medical in June this year, so it's hardly 6 months old.

I don't mind, as it allows my GP to keep any eye on me, and we get to talk motorsport, and vintage cars (he has a pre-war Lagonda which he won't let me race in the relevant AMOC series!)

[R59]

I am now confused.

In Motorsports Now! it states that drivers wishing to renew a International licence, and who are UNDER 45 must undergo an "at rest" ECG as per Appendix L of the FIA sporting code, Chapter 2, 1.2

The sporting code says:

Originally Posted by FIA

1.2) Annual medical aptitude examination:
All drivers wishing to take part in automobile competitions held
under the legislation of the Federation Internationale de
l'Automobile are required to undergo an annual medical aptitude
examination in order to obtain a driver's licence from the National
Sporting Authority.

The medical examination must be carried out by a doctor of
medicine authorised to practise in the country which issued the
licence. Where appropriate, the ASN may lay down special
conditions.

1.3) Medical examination form:
In each country, the National Sporting Authority, in accordance
with local legislation or customs, must draw up and print a
medical form for distribution to all applicants for a licence. This
medical form must stipulate all the tests to which the drivers will
be submitted, as indicated hereafter. It will be signed by both the
examining doctor and the driver concerned, above the stamp of
the ASN.
The prescribed tests are as follows:
a) determination of blood group and RH factor compulsory only in
those countries where required by law.
b) eyesight test.
c) orthopaedic tests.
d) maximum or below maximum stress test (under ECG control)
for drivers over 45 years of age (valid for 2 years).
Note: In those countries where laws or customs so demand, the
national form may prescribe additional tests.
At the foot of the medical certificate, the applicant must sign a
declaration stating that:
i) the information given to the doctor regarding his present state of
health and previous medical history is correct.
ii) he undertakes not to use any drug considered illegal
(International Olympic Committee list of doping classes and
methods).

It doesn't mention ANYWHERE that I can see, anything to do with "at rest ECG" for under 45's. That used to be in Appendix L a long time ago, but hasn't been there for years.

Has the MSA borrowed a DeLorean and gone back to 1955?

I feel a phone-call to Colnbrook on Monday morning coming on...

[PTRACER]

Aside from Dr. Mark Green aka Motor Racing Medics, are there any qualified doctors involved in motorsport who provide the medical as a service, but at a slightly reduced cost?

I have told my doctor what needs to be done and he insists I'm wrong, despite the fact I had Mark Green do mine back in November 2008 so I know what's involved, and they're asking me to pay £149

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

Aside from Dr. Mark Green aka Motor Racing Medics, are there any qualified doctors involved in motorsport who provide the medical as a service, but at a slightly reduced cost?

I have told my doctor what needs to be done and he insists I'm wrong, despite the fact I had Mark Green do mine back in November 2008 so I know what's involved, and they're asking me to pay £149

I have had a similar experience with my own doctor so I go to Dr Mark Green each year now.

[Al Weyman]

Same old thing Dave a rip off and sorry if that offends some here as it has when I have said it in the past. My doctor would want a similar amount and what bugs me he is using the National Health facilities to do the examination unlike Dr. Green who still manages to do the job for a reasonable price! If some of the fee went back to the NHS I would not be so bothered but that sort of money for literally 10 minutes work and zero overheads is quite frankly ridiculous. I think the problem is they equate it with an HGV medical when it isnt and apart from that a medical to enable you to earn money is one thing, a medical to enable you to spend money is a different matter.

[PTRACER]

Mark Green is still wanting £70+VAT for the medical and seeing as I would have to drive all the way to Gatwick for it, we're talking a good £25 in fuel, so in the end that's nearly £110 which is still a lot of money for what it is.

[Al Weyman]

Are you visiting any of the shows like Race Retro that he goes to, if so you can bok in advance and kill two birds with one stone. He may even be at Autosport?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Same old thing Dave a rip off and sorry if that offends some here as it has when I have said it in the past. My doctor would want a similar amount and what bugs me he is using the National Health facilities to do the examination unlike Dr. Green who still manages to do the job for a reasonable price! If some of the fee went back to the NHS I would not be so bothered but that sort of money for literally 10 minutes work and zero overheads is quite frankly ridiculous. I think the problem is they equate it with an HGV medical when it isnt and apart from that a medical to enable you to earn money is one thing, a medical to enable you to spend money is a different matter.

I assume your doctor is at his surgery to do the medicals, if so I think you'll find the facilities are his or his practices, not NHS. His practice would be paying for the facilities and the NHS will be using them just the same as you are. I don't see why I should fund your medicals for your leisure activity.

The facilities he uses are not cheap and it's a bit different to having a shop with a few printing machines that you can pick up for 3 grand (if you find an honest supplier that is).
Then don't forget the 10 years training he has had to do at a cost of £50K + so I don't think £100 or so is OTT for what should be quite a bit more than ten minutes work, my doctor takes eleven. Have you been to the dentist lately, that's a rip off.

[terence]

I wonder how much a 'treadmill' is these days?Bet the cost of one of those alone would probably buy a decent racecar.

[Al Weyman]

It is ten minutes work and as for the equipment I have to inform you some of my machines cost way way more than 3k! I have a scanner 12K, A Versacamm was 10k, laminator 6k, OCE plan printer 12k etc etc etc and far more than a bit of litmus paper, a blood pressure machine and an eye test chart as thats all he uses on me and for £145 for 10 minutes work that in my book is OTT.

[PTRACER]

I'd imagine your machinery has high running costs as well doesn't it Al? Especially the plan printer. An eye chart on the wall hardly needs regular maintenance. It's just greed and profiteering in an otherwise overpaid profession.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

It is ten minutes work and as for the equipment I have to inform you some of my machines cost way way more than 3k! I have a scanner 12K, A Versacamm was 10k, laminator 6k, OCE plan printer 12k etc etc etc and far more than a bit of litmus paper, a blood pressure machine and an eye test chart as thats all he uses on me and for £145 for 10 minutes work that in my book is OTT.

You can pick up a Sphygmomanometer for about £50 so the other £100 is for the signature and I only know three people on tenths who can sign whereas we can get printing done or computers mended anywhere.

[Al Weyman]

One of my printers has 12 colour cartridges that cost over £200 plus vat each, thats £2400 to change the 12!

Err so Doctors dont like motor racing or 10/10ths what does that prove if they did then maybe they would do the job cheaper. I tell you what all joking aside you will not find many companies around that can scan a 1 metre of any length poster like I can on my big scanner, bet its easier to find a doctor! ;-) Oh and even with no formal training someone like me who KNOWS how to use the kit!