Future of Rallycross - thoughts from Belgium

[RoyG]

Instead of driving over 500 miles to Knockhill, I made a shorter trip over to Belgium to have a look at my first European event - a Regional Championship Rallycross meeting at Arendonk.


Impressions, in no particular order -

Circuit - Mickey Mouse, but excellent spectator viewing of the whole track from banking around the circuit. This circuit is exclusively for Rallycross.

Facilities - basic. The paddock is in a field next to the circuit - could be a problem in really wet weather. But the race control etc. is in a permanent building. The PA is excellent, though I couldn't understand a word of Flemish!!

Entry - healthy 50+, not a Supercar in sight, but with an amazing variety of machinery - Golf, 205, Nova (sorry Corsa A), Corsa B, Astra, Manta, Volvo, Audi, BMW, Mercedes! - to name but a few. Compare that with BTRDA events - about 40% 205, 50% Mini, 10% other.

Driving standards - robust!! Plenty of action, particularly braking into the many hairpins!

Organisation - slick. Turnaround time between races was minimal, with two breakdown trucks and a very compact layout there was rarely more than a minute or two between races.

Spectator numbers - healthy, a few hundred I'd guess, very enthusiastic.

Starts - 4 in a row for all classes, so no kamikaze moves from the back row.

Weather - no need for bowser!



Conclusions -

It seems that grass-roots Rallycross is alive and well in Belgium. My guess is that the same is true for other European countries, which I guess explains why the higher levels of the sport are so much healthier than in UK.

My view is that the long-term future of Rallycross in UK depends more on the lower levels of the sport than just concentrating on the higher profile events. If the grass roots die, Rallycross is history.


Comments please!


Question - does anyone know what the regs are for the Belgian classes A, B & C?

[RoyG]

P.S. Check out http://www.rallyracing.nl/news/2004/.../foto30mei.htm for photos of the event. See what I mean about variety?!

[BertMk2]

Isn't this the thinking behind the clubmans series? I went to the winter Lydden rounds and they were great fun (despite the somewhat damp weather) - the cars may not have been the top end machinery but the racing was close and there was plenty of action throughout the day.

I'll be there for the round in July as well (I'll be at Lydden both days that weekend - SEMSEC saturday, rallycross sunday - great weekend )

[RoyG]

Bert -

Yes, the Clubmans' series is aimed at the grass roots, but I can't help feeling that it could do with a bit more active promotion. If just half of the people who've competed briefly in Rallycross during the last few years then disappeared could be persuaded to make a comeback we'd have some seriously full grids!

[Rod Birley]

Unfortunately it is very expensive to put on a club rallycross event, mainly due to circuit hire, insurance, medical cover, costs of officials etc.. The main income is from entry fees and we all know where that leads to. The support for the winter meetings was below expectation, resulting in financial losses for the clubs involved. It is a very sad situation, especially after a lot of hard work is put in trying to make these meetings appealing. Any thoughts on how this can be turned around?

[winnie]

For the last ten years all i have heard is that British Rallycross is improving and will be better next year.

British rallycross needs to look at itself and become more proffesional in its promotion, quality of meetings, quality of venue's, quantity of proper race cars etc. Rallycross can compete with touring cars providing it has the right promotion. If it doesn't happen soon, it could all be over. I cab see Gollop, Doran, Carnegie and McCluskey only doing europe next year, Gibson may be forced out with his old car (he may well retire if they force him to have add weight for the next meeting). This would leave Grant, Munday and McCann as the super-car grid. If this happens spectator levels and general interest will drop with a further decline of British Rallycross.

One idea is to have a shorter British Championship with say one meeting only at Mondello, Croft, Lydden, Knockhill, Pembrey with the final round at Brands. This gives a meeting to Ireland, Scotland Wales and England. Only allow Super-car, Modified and top 20 of Stock Hatch. You would get 30 to 40 quality races, decent lunch break, driver parade, long practice and a gauranteed finish due to time. A month or two after the Brands meeting hold the Grand Prix which must be at Brands Hatch. This would get the Europeans over and british rallycross would benifit.

[Barrie]

I no Ive mentioned this before but honestly all will soon be revealed, Super series will be anounced very soon, yes it will be based on the Euro Divisions and reg's, what isn't everyone's cup of tea, Ive been converted, European championship looks fantastic this year. Super-series will take the sport back where it belongs, it will provide aspects that everyone wants. GP will be a chance to have an early feel of whats to come. Stay postive guys.

Interesting to read your Post Roy G. I could see you driving a Div1A Corsa next year, fully sorted by the guys at ASW, lol. As for grass roots rallycross, it has been boom time in recent years for low budget rallycross, apart from minicross, grass-roots rallycross didn't really come into effect until the 90's (apart from minicross), autocross was always the feeder sport for rallycross what brings me to say rallycross would survive without grass root events, but in saying that I still would like to see entries in Stockhatch and Minicross stay high as there good fun for drivers and spectators.

[RoyG]

Barrie -

All I've heard about "Super Series" is "nudge & wink"!!! What the f**k is it all about?! If you don't want to make the details public, then IM me with some sort of info!!

The chance of me in a Div 1A Corsa is the square root of f**k all!! Cost of a Div 1A Corsa = cost of Stock Hatch Nova times at least 10!!! Chance of ASW sorting also = sqrt(f**ck all) - they folded years ago!!

You say that Rallycross can survive without grass-roots - you're dreaming!! Autocross is virtually dead in most parts of UK.

Sorry mate - get real!!

[Roundy Mooney]

Roy
Couldn't agree with you more. All the cloak and dagger stuff about 'super series' is wearing very thin with me.Me thinks its time to either let everyone know what the story is or shut up shop on the rumour mill which is doing nobodys confidence in rallycross any good.

[RoyG]

Rod Birley's post is the one that concerns me most. Rod has put a huge amount of time and effort into making the BARC clubbie events at Lydden a success, but the last few meetings have run at a loss. It's doubtful that the chiefs at BARC will allow this to go on forever! Also I believe DDMC lost money on the BTRDA round earlier in the year. I don't know whether the Blyton round broke even or not. TWMC are dipping their toe in the Clubbie water in July - I hope they don't get their toes burned!
I don't have any ready answers to these problems, but hope that a strategy can be formulated to ensure the future of an entry level into Rallycross. If anyone has any bright ideas, please share them.

[Barrie]

That went down well, I'm not in the business of trying to p.ss people off, I'm only drip fed information myself. From what I can gather full details will be available very soon, possibly this month. There not rumours it will happen.

[BertMk2]

The winter rounds at Lydden were great fun to watch, the addition of the stock rod vs stock hatch added a few more races - would it be possible to hold a clubmans rallycross meeting alongside a full stock rod meeting on the same day? That would give an increased number of competitors (and therefore entry fees), plus you could still have the stock hatch vs stock rod challenge to further bump up the number of races. I don't know how practical that is? The meeting would probably have to run on a Saturday so you could get a full days racing in.

[RoyG]

Further info received about the Belgian rounds (thanks to Peter Grymans) -

Entry fees for Regional Championship meetings - €62!!!!
Entry fees for International Championship meetings - €90 - €112!!!!

Makes £120 for BTRDA rounds & £150-£250 for BRDA rounds look a tad expensive!!!

Also found out a bit about the clas structure for the Regional Championship - in Peter's words -

Division C Promo class,
two wheel drive cars, cc free but not more than two valves - cylinder turbo etc are not allowed drivers in this class are normally not experienced

Division B
Cars with more than 1600 cc, two wheel drive, turbo etc not allowed

Division A
Cars up to 1600 cc two wheel drive, turbo etc not allowed

Mostly standard cars

Sounds like good, cheap, fun Rallycross!

Euro rules apply to International rounds - i.e. Divisions 1, 1a & 2

[Carlos]

I would love to race something else than a 205, and from speaking to people that seems to be the main concensus.
The amount of competitors for grass roots stockhatch by far exceeds supercar and modifieds, so surelly even with the entry cost differance stock and mini must be the revenue earner. Just let us run differant machinery in stockhatch. euro classes allow this so sounds great to me.

[Upside Down Bug]

Hi Roy

One of the main things to note is that it is a similar cost whether you are promoting a NatA or Nat B event. Costs such as medical cover are the same regardless.

I may be wrong, but I understand that track hire fees are considerable less in Belgium etc, and this can then be reflected in entry fees. Without major sponsorship, of which there is precious little in any form of motorsport in this country, all the cost of a meeting must be covered from somewhere. Sadly the only source of income tends to be entry fees.

Like Roy, I wish I had the answer, but unless we find grass root venues like Swindon used to be, we will have to pay the fees that the circuits can demand. It is a simple case of market forces, if a circuit can charge x amount to a track day organiser, where is the incentive to charge less than that to a rallycross organiser?

[winnie]

The incentive is 5,000 spectators paying £10 each to get in.

Can some-one tell me how the money is distributed for a meeting and what the costs are to hire a track, medical, recovery etc.

Lets take the BRC round at Lydden as an example.

Income from entry from competitors, 9 Super cars, 16 modified, 26 stock hatch, 13 minicross, 20 juniors. This gives approx £13,000 income. I estimate 5,000 spectators at £10 (i think).

This gives a combined income of around £63,000. How is this distributed and can you justify the entry fee.

What are the hire costs of each individual circuit, and what was Wildtracks going to charge.

[BertMk2]

Not sure I'm right on this but don't the circuits take the gate money? The organising club only gets the drivers entry fees to cover the cost of circuit hire etc. so for your example Lydden circuit would get £50,000 and the £13,000 of entry fees would go to the organising club.

I guess the cost of circuit hire varies greatly, Brands probably being the most expensive and I'd guess Blyton as the cheapest?

[King Arthur]

The above is quite correct the circuit do take the majority of the gate money. You need 80+ cars at say £120 to be anywhere near break even. Most Clubmans events struggle to get 50.

I have been to Arendonk many times and it is a basic circuit run by extremely nice friendly people. If I remember correctly the local town had a stake in it and used it to attract people to its town so circuit hire and gate money are probably negotiable.

The rise in the number of track days is certainly having an impact as you can have maybe as many as 150 people all paying £100 and minimal cost in respect of the safety and other issues mandatory on a MSA permitted event. The circuit also gets all the money.

Is it time to run non MSA rallycross events ???

[winnie]

If Rallycross could find a couple of circuit's well positioned such as Blighton and Wildtracks that would be happy to run the meetings then there is a chance it would work. Just look how popular short oval racing and grasstrack racing is, and they often get start money.

There must be plenty of semi-pernament race circuits that could be converted to rallycross, it would just need a brave promoter to do a deal with say the BRDA.

The one problem is that it would isolate us from European Rallycross, but i'm sure that the Scandandians were thinking of pulling out a few years ago.

[BertMk2]

For the BTRDA rounds would it be possible to hold a track day or sprint in the morning on the tarmac circuit and then have rallycross on the mixed surface in the afternoon? That way you still get your entry fees from your competitors but you also open up another source of income as the sprinters / track day types pay up as well. This works for club circuit racing so could it work for club rallycross too?

[Barrie]

Drivers will be given a draft of plans for an alternative rallycross series at Croft.

[Cryos]

just an update on peters alternate rallycross series, all subscribers will recieve information soon

[Dunnes]

rxie what do you mean about subscribers? I would love to know abou tthe alternative RallyX.....

[Cryos]

pop an e-mail over to info@rallycrossireland.com with the subject BRXC Alt Series, you will get an automated reply (basicaly saying that your email has been received).

All Press and Media Personell will be getting press packs soon so im told, we are simply just forwarding the information we get to all who have put their address to the list

[Dunnes]

magic i think i sent an e-mail when it was first mentioned
Cheers