IMSA: USCR 2018

[Victor_RO]

RACER reporting that Alonso doing Daytona for United Autosports is a done deal. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14522...ted-autosports

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Sounds like a mainly cost driven deal (read: Adler got a bargain on the Riley) with the possible added bonus of a considerably improved car for free. I feel BAR1's P2 business model is very similar to their, now defunct, PC one. Unfortunately that means a lot of very healthy but also very slow amateur drivers who really shouldn't be in IMSA premier racing series - let alone in the premier class.

I'd better order some more yellow flags for at the race track, the current ones might wear out quickly...

That was my first thought as well. I can't say I blame them though. Let's say BAR knows his customers won't be challenging for the overall victory, what does it matter if the car is a dog. Sometimes just being different is enough to get attention. Plus the upgrades will actually make the car better. So he gets an upgraded car for the price of a used chassis. Not a bad deal!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

RACER reporting that Alonso doing Daytona for United Autosports is a done deal. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14522...ted-autosports

I like his attitude towards this, get experience in endurance so he can attack Le Mans in the best way possible.

[skycafe]

I don't see it confirmed yet in other places. But, this would be big for Daytona, and IMSA.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

That was my first thought as well. I can't say I blame them though. Let's say BAR knows his customers won't be challenging for the overall victory, what does it matter if the car is a dog. Sometimes just being different is enough to get attention. Plus the upgrades will actually make the car better. So he gets an upgraded car for the price of a used chassis. Not a bad deal!

Agreed Joeb, I always like the extra, odd entry which almost instantly becomes the underdog (like the Dawson P2 Radical in ALMS around 2010). But I'm concerned about the average amateur driver they bring onto the big stage as they tend to cause a disproportional part of the incidents out there (not necessarily crashes and such but more questionable driving standards and on track "moves") which shows those drivers are often 'out-of-their-league'.

Alonso coming to Daytona - in addition to Penske, and especially Helio and Montoya - will certainly not hurt the attention to the event! Now, will IMSA be able to lure Button as well to top it all off....?

Also: Alfa Romeo entering IMSA competition (thru the back door for now with Munday paying the required mnf marketing fee for CTSCC).

Interesting development. Let's hope it's the predecessor of things to come.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/ctscc/m...erican-effort/

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

All the joker upgrades will come for free. The price for the p2's with the jokers should be the exact same as it was before. So if what you're suggesting is true, the Riley must be a bargain! I guess they have to price it competitively since it's pace wasn't

Correct, but only free on existing cars owned by teams, not on new cars. So basically the new customers are paying for the free updates on the already owned cars (and in case of the Riley/Multimatic, Mazda is paying for those).

Keating must have really wanted to get rid of his car and Adler was able to get a good 'secondhand car' deal (even though the car was only used just once in anger, at LM this year). I'm thinking he likes to make a similar deal with the only other Riley P2 car out there, which is still owned by Visit Florida.

I'm guessing Keating might go with an (leased) Oreca or Ligier (depending on how their update is working out) as I don't see him skipping LM???

[Jonerz]

The only upshot of BAR1's customer base moving to a P2 chassis, is it should be a little more driver-friendly than the PC cars were. Of course, the speed increases the challenge to the operator.

Chris

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by joeb

That was my first thought as well. I can't say I blame them though. Let's say BAR knows his customers won't be challenging for the overall victory, what does it matter if the car is a dog. Sometimes just being different is enough to get attention. Plus the upgrades will actually make the car better. So he gets an upgraded car for the price of a used chassis. Not a bad deal!

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The only upshot of BAR1's customer base moving to a P2 chassis, is it should be a little more driver-friendly than the PC cars were. Of course, the speed increases the challenge to the operator.

Chris

Both of these comments actually brings up a thought where the Riley Multimatic might be the better /best choice for this operation. Like Joeb said it's probably obvious that the car won't be challenging on outright speed alone simply based on driver level. Added to that the Riley is said to be higher down-force but also very high drag (slow) as it sits. This would make it (I would assume) easier to drive for a less experienced driver who isn't pushing to 10/10ths. Assuming that the upgrade package at the very least makes the car reliable, and with some luck maybe it adds some speed, it could make it a fairly appealing package for those going into the program with a realistic sense of where they might be in the field.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Both of these comments actually brings up a thought where the Riley Multimatic might be the better /best choice for this operation. Like Joeb said it's probably obvious that the car won't be challenging on outright speed alone simply based on driver level. Added to that the Riley is said to be higher down-force but also very high drag (slow) as it sits. This would make it (I would assume) easier to drive for a less experienced driver who isn't pushing to 10/10ths. Assuming that the upgrade package at the very least makes the car reliable, and with some luck maybe it adds some speed, it could make it a fairly appealing package for those going into the program with a realistic sense of where they might be in the field.

Actually the car hasn't more downforce than an oreca 07, it simply has a so afwul aero that makes the car terribly high drag.

If BAR1 got the riley lmp2 for cheap it's a great move, considering that they'll be using the car for milking paying drivers.

[canaglia]

BTW why everyone is losing his mind about alonso trip at daytona?
United Autosports is alonso boss in mclaren too.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I beginning to think that a Pro/Am P class limited to to ACO P2s is starting to make a lot of sense to IMSA.

No way! You either want to race with the professionals on a level playing field or not. It's the way it has always been until 6-7 years ago. We've already have a pro/am category for those that want that.

Leave the amateur categories to the ACO/FIA.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by canaglia

BTW why everyone is losing his mind about alonso trip at daytona?
United Autosports is alonso boss in mclaren too.

It's exciting news?

[Akrapovic]

Without the pro/am category, IMSA would have had 18 years line up at Petit. I'll happily keep the pro/am setup - it's allowed grid numbers to flourish worldwide. If a pro/am setup for Prototype class, I don't see why it shouldn't be introduced if it doesn't cause any other issues.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by canaglia

BTW why everyone is losing his mind about alonso trip at daytona?
United Autosports is alonso boss in mclaren too.

And just how many times has Alonso been in United Autosports P2?






L.P.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Without the pro/am category, IMSA would have had 18 years line up at Petit. I'll happily keep the pro/am setup - it's allowed grid numbers to flourish worldwide. If a pro/am setup for Prototype class, I don't see why it shouldn't be introduced if it doesn't cause any other issues.

You are inferring that I said that amateurs cannot compete or that amateurs would not compete if not given their own class. That's not what I said and I don't believe the latter to be true.

[Matt]

Nah, I'm against a Pro/Am P class.

JDC-Miller showed it's not needed.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

You are inferring that I said that amateurs cannot compete or that amateurs would not compete if not given their own class. That's not what I said and I don't believe the latter to be true.

Just the statement - "Leave the amateur categories to the ACO/FIA." does read like you would drop GTD if needed too.

I don't see the problem with Pro/Am providing you don't get the mess of the PC class. If it brings more cars to the grid then it also brings more spaces for future talent, etc. Pro/Am has a place and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

It wasn't the normal state 6 or 7 years ago. But the financial crisis wasn't good to the racing world, and Pro/Am has pretty much saved all major sportscar series from death. Without it, we wouldn't have GTD. I understand why many wouldn't want a Pro/Am P (especially with current grid numbers), I just think it's a valuable tool that shouldn't be dismissed so easily. In a Pro/Am case, the am drivers become customers and they need consulted on it to see how it would change their approach.

The current system does work, and right now it doesn't need changing. But it's good to have options like this on the table depending on how things develop.

--

As for Alonso at Daytona. Of course people are losing their minds. It's awesome - you should be losing your mind!

[MaskedRacer]

With the grid sizes we might get in both prototype and GTD for the 2018 full season potentially be close to 20 cars. I think you can justify a couple of stand alone GTD races such as at Mid Ohio for instance running a 1 hour 40 minute race, while DPI and GTLM run separately in a 2 hour 45 minute race.

[Purist]

I'm just wondering where the Riley's drag would be coming from. At least from the outside, and especially in the VF blue livery, the thing looked rather like a 2013 Toyota in Le Mans trim. So, I'm just a little confused.

Of the four LMP2 chasses, I'd have thought, if any, the Ligier would have the most downforce and drag.

As for Alonso, he's a two-time F1 World Drivers Champion; it certainly wouldn't hurt the attention that IMSA garners to have him on the grid.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm just wondering where the Riley's drag would be coming from. At least from the outside, and especially in the VF blue livery, the thing looked rather like a 2013 Toyota in Le Mans trim. So, I'm just a little confused.

When I look at the car, I notice three specific areas that I question: The windshield, the fill-ins between the nose and fenders, and the leading edge of the rear fenders.

The windshield on the Riley-Multimatic always looked a little too flat and at too high an angle. The new rules for that on all the LMPs, but it's particularly egregious on the R-M.

The fender fill-ins always seemed needlessly thick and blunted given they don't need to move air away from the fender holes.

Likewise, the leading edge of the rear fenders seemed a little too short and blunt - while most modern LMPs move them further forward and sometime taper them to a point, R-M went with a more traditional design.

In current LMP design, pushing air around the fender holes is of high importance to reducing drag. The blunt front fenders and the long rear fenders are designed for this purpose - the blunt front fenders produce more drag, but it's less than what's created without addressing the fender holes. They don't need as blunt a leading edge on the back because the airflow is already disrupted, but classic fender designs don't cut it anymore, and R-M seemed to have gone too traditional in the back end.

The fill-ins and rear fenders have been altered on the Mazda, with the fill-ins being barely present and a longer though still smoothed-out rear fender. Given the Mazda was often faster than the base R-M, it would seem that these elements had a notable impact.

Or...Maybe not. The thing is, there's so many tiny details on these cars that all of the excess drag could be due to stuff we simply can't see, and all of my above analysis could be completely off-base. But that's the best guess I can make based on what we know. We'll have to take a look at the revised Multimatic when it breaks cover, and see if there's any visible changes.

[canaglia]

My opinion about the riley lmp2 (already shared here time ago):

what's the problem with this car? I think most of the issues come from the core: Lack of knowledge by the manufacturer. Multimatic know how about lmp1/2 carbon tubs comes from the 2012 lola lmp1/2 blueprints, being multimatic the company who kept on producing lola parts after their motorsport division demise 5 years ago.
With this poor carbon knowledge and know-how, FIA and ACO however picked'em as 4th chassis supplier for 2017 lmp2 rules.
Guess dome was a much better candidate if only had a wealthy situation (at the moment, don't know if dome does still exist).

Anyway, what's result? an overweighted car (considering that oreca, dallara and ligier reach 930kg only becuase of mandatory ballast) with an awful aero and likely the highest drag ever produced by a modern lmp.
In just one word: a wreck of car.

To me is not riley-multimatic to blame, but FIA-ACO.

[Purist]

Thanks for that, Fox.

MR, there may be some difficulty with the pit lane, but the track at Mid Ohio should be able to handle ~40 cars. I know the layout was a bit different, and I don't recommend it now, but the 1983 six-hour had 50 starters.

Interesting note, at least up through 1986, IMSA still did the initial starts on the front straight. And with the current cars, you're not really going to slow down much, if at all, for Turn 1 coming off even a rolling start, so the congestion issue there is rather moot anymore.

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

In current LMP design, pushing air around the fender holes is of high importance to reducing drag. The blunt front fenders and the long rear fenders are designed for this purpose - the blunt front fenders produce more drag, but it's less than what's created without addressing the fender holes. They don't need as blunt a leading edge on the back because the airflow is already disrupted, but classic fender designs don't cut it anymore, and R-M seemed to have gone too traditional in the back end.

The fill-ins and rear fenders have been altered on the Mazda, with the fill-ins being barely present and a longer though still smoothed-out rear fender. Given the Mazda was often faster than the base R-M, it would seem that these elements had a notable impact.

Or...Maybe not. The thing is, there's so many tiny details on these cars that all of the excess drag could be due to stuff we simply can't see, and all of my above analysis could be completely off-base. But that's the best guess I can make based on what we know. We'll have to take a look at the revised Multimatic when it breaks cover, and see if there's any visible changes.

Do you think the R-M is the opposite of the Dallara P2? (low drag, but lack downforce with the LM aero kit)

[TF110]

Look at the Riley head on vs the competition. It's cockpit is wide like the previous dp's. The others are much more slim. That right there has to be a big factor in the poor top speed/high drag.

[carbsmith]

The Dallara doesn't have an overall downforce problem, they have a balance problem limiting their setup window.

Multimatic has a heck of a lot more than just the old Lola car designs. They employ a bunch of the Lola staff, they produce carbon fiber parts for Formula 1 teams, and they make one of the few carbon fiber chassis production cars.