March 722 - 732 - 742 - 752

[driftwood]

so now your tellin us you have 1 cell in each side of tub so it is F2 cells not sprint race wedge behind driver as F3 cars used

[HAMMILL]

Originally Posted by driftwood

so now your tellin us you have 1 cell in each side of tub so it is F2 cells not sprint race wedge behind driver as F3 cars used

I'm sorry...I thought I had put that in a earlier post. We have always
believed this was a car from F2. Yes I have two cells(big)....well find the
other cell in our storage tomorrow. And hopefully post pics.

Thanks
HAMMILL

[HAMMILL]

hello...lets see how it goes

[HAMMILL]

more

[HAMMILL]

a few more....tell me what else you guys would need pics of please.
I am also going to attempt in the next couple weeks to scan the picture
of the car in 1980 and I believe '81
Thanks
Hammill

[HAMMILL]

Can you guys see the pics?

[allenbrown]

Definitely AM 72 X 64. I'll ask a few people elsewhere as well.

[HAMMILL]

Thanks

[SteveTracy]

Still looking to track down the 72B my father ran in the Pacific Northwest and sold ~1976 timeframe. Figuring odds are the car went local or at most to CA after it was sold, and it might still be in the West Coast area.

Found a car running Portland Oregon Historic racing, 722 spitting image of my father's old car, but cannot yet find an entry list to figure out who the owner was (he attended 2005-2006).



Also noticed an entrant for 2009 listed with a "75B" although who knows...here you can see part of the car behind the "72B" - here at the same event in 2006.

#75 Rincon Mark Redding CA 1975 March 75B 1600 Blue



Guess I will have to check the people who run the event and see if I can get a name for 2005/2006.

[SteveTracy]

Looks like probably the same car - just have to figure out who the owner is and where it came from:

[Bryan Miller]

The last photo is at Eastern Creek in Sydney Australia and the car is THE PROPER March 722-5 ex Lauda , car has bulletproof provenance and is owned and driven by John Gale of Mosman Sydney , who can be seen checking out something in the front of engine bay.
The car behind is Doug Macarthur's Ralt Rt1 Atlantic .

Bryan Miller , Chairman , Historic Eligibility Committee , Confederation Australian Motorsports. [ C.A.M.S. ]

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

The last photo is at Eastern Creek in Sydney Australia and the car is THE PROPER March 722-5 ex Lauda , car has bulletproof provenance and is owned and driven by John Gale of Mosman Sydney , who can be seen checking out something in the front of engine bay.
The car behind is Doug Macarthur's Ralt Rt1 Atlantic .

Bryan Miller , Chairman , Historic Eligibility Committee , Confederation Australian Motorsports. [ C.A.M.S. ]

Bullet proof provenance courtesy of an oldracingcars.com investigation and history dossier...

Self-promotion over,
Steve, there are a few 722s in California and Colorado that might run that colour scheme. One is the ex Jose Dolhem F2 car, 722-14 owned by Dennis Maynard, which is now for sale I think, and the other is an Atlantic with a known chassis number, 722-30 but no history beyond "European". I don't know if Ken Stone still has 722-6 [said to be ex Lazier] but if he has, that would be another possibility for this car

Hammil: the 72X stamping is not unique, indeed it might be typical. Brad Moore's 722-27, known to run as FB in the late 70s, has 72 X 129. I don't think that there would be a correlation between chassis number and tub number, though a lower number might indicate an earlier chassis.

Chris

[SteveTracy]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

The last photo is at Eastern Creek in Sydney Australia and the car is THE PROPER March 722-5 ex Lauda , car has bulletproof provenance and is owned and driven by John Gale of Mosman Sydney , who can be seen checking out something in the front of engine bay.
The car behind is Doug Macarthur's Ralt Rt1 Atlantic .

Bryan Miller , Chairman , Historic Eligibility Committee , Confederation Australian Motorsports. [ C.A.M.S. ]

Thank you Bryan. I did not realize the car I saw from the Portland, Oregon Historic event was "close, but not quite" livery for Lauda's March 722. That's really helpful because when I get a name for the entrant in Portland I am reasonably sure it won't be Mr. Gale.

The car in Portland has the some of the same markings but lacking the yellow paint it isn't really that close, now that I look at it. It is probably an ex-SCCA FB or FA car, which is where I expect I'll find my father's old car if it hasn't been *******ized, um, I mean upgraded into a 74/76/77B with newer bodywork.

Beautiful car. Nice Ralt, too! I appreciate the information.

[SteveTracy]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

...Steve, there are a few 722s in California and Colorado that might run that colour scheme. One is the ex Jose Dolhem F2 car, 722-14 owned by Dennis Maynard, which is now for sale I think, and the other is an Atlantic with a known chassis number, 722-30 but no history beyond "European". I don't know if Ken Stone still has 722-6 [said to be ex Lazier] but if he has, that would be another possibility for this car...

Chris

Thank you Chris, I've seen 722-14 for sale, nice car. Wouldn't mind owning, just skip sending the kids to college, but then who would support me in my old age?

Almost all of the 1970's chassis March racing cars listed for the 2009 Portland event were from California, several from San Diego or the Bay Area. I've attached the entry list so some of the names may be familiar to you, but the "72" car isn't show in attendance in 2009. I will probably get an answer back from the Portland people pretty soon, my mother worked with them for years promoting the Vintage and Historic events.

The one thing I wish I could find is someone else who knows more about the car when it was all black except the silver tub sides, Mike F. drove it for a season before my father did. I think I already put the question to Sans Thompson but didn't get a hit. THAT is the point where the car was NEW and there should be a paper trail somewhere for that - an importer, someone.

Btw the attached photo is yet another one, and unless I am mistaken when I look closely at the #3 car, the driver name is labeled as "Niki Lauda". It doesn't look like it's the same as any of the others with that paint scheme, unless maybe there is just a point in time issue.

75B's are a lot easier...well, I guess after someone sorted the 12 of them out

Steve

[Bryan Miller]

Steve,

That photo is also of 722-5 , however at the time owned by Dr. Michael Henderson
of Sydney , that was competing at a very wet Sandown meeting I think , besides his car is the ex Peter Whelan Chevron B29 that Peter sold to the USA a few years ago , that is the ex Redman Tasman 2.0 litre BMW car .

John Gale had redone some of the paint and livery after purchase from Michael as the car was not fully representative.

[SteveTracy]

Thank you Bryan. If I can eliminate similar cars then I may have a better chance of determining some of the local car owners in the Pacific Northwest, that's a big help. The photo is from Sandown.
Steve

[HAMMILL]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Hammil: the 72X stamping is not unique, indeed it might be typical. Brad Moore's 722-27, known to run as FB in the late 70s, has 72 X 129. I don't think that there would be a correlation between chassis number and tub number, though a lower number might indicate an earlier chassis.

Chris

curious if any of these numbers were documented in the March shop during car builds. Or by the trans number, I would think they documented some of this sort of stuff during the build. Other wise
it seems strange to waste time numbering the stuff.
Thanks for the info,
Hammill

[SteveTracy]

Originally Posted by HAMMILL

curious if any of these numbers were documented in the March shop during car builds. Or by the trans number, I would think they documented some of this sort of stuff during the build. Other wise
it seems strange to waste time numbering the stuff.
Thanks for the info,
Hammill

I believe a lot of the numbering, based on what driftwood told me earlier, was more for their tracking of assemblies or specific casting numbers for a lot, etc.

Some of the numbers I thought would be significant just turn up on the build sheets for a 722. For example I see a part 722-05-nn but then realize that's not a chassis code, it's Anti-roll bars - all the parts 722-05-nn are for F/R sway bar stuff. 722-04-nn was steering assembly stuff, etc.

When I look at the kit list and drawing files, I get the sense maybe on a build sheet was the only place "as-built" came together along with chassis code.

Have to ask an expert for that one, not me

[Chris Townsend]

Sadly for Steve and Hammill, March records before only rarely include gearbox numbers, or tub numbers and the like. Where a car is sold in the USA the list usually simply says "Grimaldi" and gives a colour and date if you are lucky.
And sometimes the entry is wrong...
Working out Marches in North America can't really be done from build records unless the record in question has colour and date, and you manage to fill a few gaps working backwards from known histories of current cars.
I just loved Steve's comments that 75Bs are much easier, there only being 12 of them!
Well, 12 plus 3 factory hor series, so 15
No build records known to man, bullet proof period identifications on I would say precisely three of them after seven years investigation.


Now I don't have 722 build records, I believe that Duncan Rabagliatti has them, and don't know what they contain, but based on what I've seen of 1971 you might get something valuable, or of 1973, nothing at all.
42 722s were built; based on my research I'd say I know where 22 of them were in 1972, and that is mainly European F2s and British Atlantics.

[SteveTracy]

Hi Chris, I figured you'd get a chuckle of my 75B comments. Even with my limited knowledge I have seen more "creative" 75B's "restored" to original condition but not based on a real 75B. So you have to eliminate all of those ongoing basis. I had a hard enough time figuring out my father's second March wasn't a 75B!

Well, at least you know (not quite bulletproof) where one more 72B/722 was in 1972. I just wish I could figure out which one it was and where it went. There used to be so many detailed photos of that car - I took several when it was in a car show when nearly new to show off the Oregon Air National Guard sponsorship. Almost all those went with my father, who probably chucked them when he moved from AZ to WA. The start lists are misleading, I would bet the car was updated and entered as a later model year due to upgraded body work if it even stayed in the PacNW region.

So unless I can find the chassis number on the front end of it's life, I may never know where it went. If I do ever find it, my wife isn't going to be happy

I assume probably these Purley cars are counted among the ones you're familiar with, but forgetting where I saw them, I'll post them anyway. Mostly 1972 F1/F2 with some later British Atlantics.

[HAMMILL]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

you manage to fill a few gaps working backwards from known histories of current cars.

I enjoy the idea of tracking down this old car, with our records we see back to 1980 which would seem to make this processes simple. Unfortunately as I have seen, and has been stated, this looks to be the hardest part of the journey. I hope once we get in touch with Jim Buick some more clues are put on the table.

I'm sure this has been stated in past posts, refresh me, were the 2 large fuel blatters also in the British Atlantics?

Did the Atlantics have wider rear tires to handle the larger motor?

Hammill

[SteveTracy]

The Formula Atlantics and SCCA FB pretty much ran the same size tires from what I can remember and what I've seen, possibly changing out based on course. You have to differentiate between Atlantics in the British Series, the Canadian Players Series, then the combined IMSA/SCCA series (?) - I am only referring to the stateside series which ran in North America.

Also be careful of the Formula "A" cars in SCCA, not "Atantics" but in the early 1970's, a larger more powerful motor in a similar chassis, these ran usually at the same time as FB cars in regional races. These cars typically were more like a F5000 car with up to a 5 liter V8 motor, and yes they typically ran noticeably larger tires. IIRC F5000 started out of SCCA Formula "A". Lolas for some reason made up most of these cars, I think T332's or something close to that.

So you will see on US SCCA start sheets at local and regional early 70's both FB and "FA", the latter was not an Atlantic series car at that time. Not big V8's but whatever they ran, a lot more punch than the FB motors but not that much advantage outside the straights on a tight course.

For example when I used to watch the Rose Cup Races or SCCA Regionals in Portland, OR, local long time driver and owner, Monte Shelton had a "Formula A" car that was loud, I want to say an "Eagle" with V8 motor but I don't know if that was the same car type as the Dan Gurney Eagles, I just don't know, I only remember it because it was pretty much one of a kind at the time.

This would have been ~1971-72 time frame. I saw more "Forumla A" cars in Seattle when Dad raced his Lola up there. IIRC they were Lolas, McLarens, and ones like Shelton's car. It was faster than the FB's at the time but it didn't have much real competition in class - 2 or 3 cars if you were lucky. Then you eventually just didn't see any by maybe mid-70's, IDK why. Now I have to go see if I have a start sheet in my stack of RoseCup program inserts because Monte's car is going to bug me

[allenbrown]

Formula A was the original name of F5000. The British called it F5000 when we adopted it in 1969 and then the US started to use that name for the pro series from 1971-ish. The SCCA continued to use the term Formula A but there was no difference. Formula 5000 stopped in the US at the end of 1976 and morphed into Can-Am. The SCCA Formula A was accordingly merged with the ASR class two or three years later.

Yes, you need to dig out a Rose Cup start sheet because I have no idea how we'll find out Monte Shelton's car otherwise

Full entry list please!

[Bryan Miller]

Steve,

This is a long shot , however I have seen two March 74Bs with another number stamped on the right hand front magnesium bulkhead on the top plane with something like 74B xxx , this number seems to be a continuation number , anything on yours ?? it may be something that March only did for a short time , who knows.

[SteveTracy]

Ok, will see what I have. Mom sent me all her PIR Rose Cup programs, hopefully '71 has the start sheet (they were inserts) or '72 has results, Shelton was featured pretty prominently in the various series he ran as hometown favorite. One of his former open wheel cars was owned by a couple in Seattle, I have to go find that photo. My mother knew the owners when I asked about the car. I think most of his cars carried #57, it may have been a feature in Sports Car International 5-10 years ago.