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Old 1 Sep 2017, 21:54 (Ref:3763580)   #326
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Back-to-back 12 hour races? I can't remember that being done before (I know Creventic do split races, but that's one race over two days) and I can see myself nodding off during the latter race.

The second race better be good then!
Sincerely, I prefer the format of 2 races in 2 days.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:00 (Ref:3763582)   #327
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I'm amazed at the Sebring idea. it's going to be extremely hard on some of the drivers that do both championships.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:01 (Ref:3763583)   #328
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Similar to my home track losing the ILMC race years ago, I can sympathise with those losing something here. My sincere consolences.

Sebring should have absolutely have been included in any world sports car championship. Losing Sebring from the world calander combined with losing a world class event 40 mins from my front door only to gain a soulless track half way across the country, the WEC never felt like a series trying to be relevant in the states to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

The people thrashing and belittling myself and others for not hopping on board the WEC wagon with a $hit eating grin will all forget those words likely, some spoken very recently on MWM.

I am freaking stoked for 2019 Sebring. Again, sorry to those losing something here.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:09 (Ref:3763590)   #329
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I'm amazed at the Sebring idea. it's going to be extremely hard on some of the drivers that do both championships.
They'll just have to get into a 24 hour race mentality - as will the fans. Quite intriguing in that sense.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:10 (Ref:3763591)   #330
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To me Sebring is a world class event, no matter if belongs to the World Championship or not. The WEC losses more without Sebring than Sebring without the WEC.

The IMSA now is a healthy championship, who knows in a few years.

Also it is interesting the absence of Nurburgring now that BMW has entered the series.

Last edited by Starfish Primer; 1 Sep 2017 at 22:18.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:18 (Ref:3763593)   #331
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ACO release

http://www.lemans.org/en/News/the-24...-fia-wec/47394








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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:18 (Ref:3763594)   #332
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I'd sort of figured it was a case of 'Winter Is Coming' for the WEC but didn't realise they'd roll this idea back out again.

Certainly that Sebring carrot is very intriguing. Could they use it to performance balance the machinery before 2019 Le Mans?
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:20 (Ref:3763595)   #333
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To me Sebring is a world class event, no matter if belongs to the World Championship or not. The WEC losses more without Sebring than Sebring without the WEC.

The IMSA now is a healthy championship, who knows in a few years.

Also it is interesting the absence of Nurburgring now that BMW has entered the series.
Great points. I like Sebring and PLM fine the way they are but they were something else 10 years ago.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:20 (Ref:3763596)   #334
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Odd times. Sad to see Silverstone go - it was a cracking weekend, and I'll be interested to see if something shows up in April to take its place or if ELMS goes elsewhere at a different time in the year (I'm assuming their proposition works for having a race in the UK - I can't see an argument against it).

I can't help think this feels like a bit of an unravelling. I'll probably book a couple of weekends in Belgium anyway, but with a mild feeling in my waters that if I don't end up looking at cars and spend time splashing in the spa at Spa then that'll just be one of those things.

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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3763597)   #335
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Back-to-back 12 hour races? I can't remember that being done before (I know Creventic do split races, but that's one race over two days) and I can see myself nodding off during the latter race.

The second race better be good then!
That will be a complete shat show at Sebring. I'm ready
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:25 (Ref:3763598)   #336
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3763600)   #337
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Sincerely, I prefer the format of 2 races in 2 days.
A double header is fine, the CotA/Silverstone doubles were amongst my favourite weekends, despite being at middle of the road tracks. But 12 hours is a proper endurance race by any standard, doing it twice over might be too much for me despite my enthusiasm.

That said, the fact that it's at Sebring means I'm willing to try more than if it was at almost any other circuit.

There is one unmitigated plus though - the podium will be split over two days as well...
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:56 (Ref:3763605)   #338
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I don't like this Sebring double header. So, we're going to have two Sebring winners in the same year? It just sounds ridiculous.

The grid would probably be too large if they combine. And the safety car would lead the most laps. But duplicating the race... Make it a 6 hour race and run it at a reasonable time on Sunday. Pretty simple.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:57 (Ref:3763606)   #339
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So judging by this schedule, the WEC is now officially on life support, doing pretty much the bare minimum necessary to still exist. It will have four races in calendar year 2018, dropping half* the tracks at which it raced at this year before… and the championship season will end at Le Mans, which is an excellent way to reduce the press attention winning the championship gets.

And this just highlights to what degree the ACO has lost the European market aside from Le Mans.

I suppose the idea is just to hang on and hope another manufacturer appears in LMP or that LMP1 privateer catches on.

The question going forward is how the P2 and GTE-Am teams respond to this and whether being in a world championship that will get less attention and has so few races aside from Le Mans — with the second most important one of which starting literally at midnight — is worth it. Most of them could easily get a Le Mans invite just by racing in the ELMS.

Time will tell, but I don’t think it’s too harsh to say that the WEC is half dead.

* I say half because Bahrain I suppose could be the February 2019 race.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 23:01 (Ref:3763609)   #340
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I don't like this Sebring double header. So, we're going to have two Sebring winners in the same year? It just sounds ridiculous.

The grid would probably be too large if they combine. And the safety car would lead the most laps. But duplicating the race... Make it a 6 hour race and run it at a reasonable time on Sunday. Pretty simple.
I'm getting this pessimism.

6 hour race on Sunday won't work. Some will want to leave after the 12 hours Sunday. It's already hard enough to get out and the large vehicles have to drive across the track at Gurney to get out of Green Park. The cross over bridge is for passenger vehicles only.

It's starting to feel logistically nightmarish.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 23:04 (Ref:3763610)   #341
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I don't like this Sebring double header. So, we're going to have two Sebring winners in the same year? It just sounds ridiculous.

The grid would probably be too large if they combine. And the safety car would lead the most laps. But duplicating the race...
What exactly are the record keepers going to do about this? Seriously, I need to know.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 23:08 (Ref:3763611)   #342
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I don't like this Sebring double header. So, we're going to have two Sebring winners in the same year? It just sounds ridiculous.
They ran two Bathurst 1000s in '97 and '98 and we've had some quasi-duplicate European enduros over the years.

Given WEC is a predominantly European series the midnight start is actually good for TV, because that turns it into a morning to evening 12 hours in Europe while having the entire thing end at noon is fine for North Americans following both races (only a little earlier than Daytona ends)
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 23:43 (Ref:3763615)   #343
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I agree that 12hr races is quite ridiculous from a records perspective, to me it is a better idea to keep IMSA as a 12hr race and run the WEC as a 1000km/mi or whatever.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:03 (Ref:3763618)   #344
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I agree that 12hr races is quite ridiculous from a records perspective, to me it is a better idea to keep IMSA as a 12hr race and run the WEC as a 1000km/mi or whatever.
Actually, make it 1500 km. Longer than normal, and it comes out to 250 laps even.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:57 (Ref:3763628)   #345
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So judging by this schedule, the WEC is now officially on life support, doing pretty much the bare minimum necessary to still exist. It will have four races in calendar year 2018, dropping half* the tracks at which it raced at this year before… and the championship season will end at Le Mans, which is an excellent way to reduce the press attention winning the championship gets.

And this just highlights to what degree the ACO has lost the European market aside from Le Mans.

I suppose the idea is just to hang on and hope another manufacturer appears in LMP or that LMP1 privateer catches on.

The question going forward is how the P2 and GTE-Am teams respond to this and whether being in a world championship that will get less attention and has so few races aside from Le Mans — with the second most important one of which starting literally at midnight — is worth it. Most of them could easily get a Le Mans invite just by racing in the ELMS.

Time will tell, but I don’t think it’s too harsh to say that the WEC is half dead.

* I say half because Bahrain I suppose could be the February 2019 race.
One of the issues with the WEC schedule as it stands is that it competes with ELMS for LMP2 and GTE Am entries because even if you put aside all the other conflicts it's impossible to do both Silverstone races with one team. That's presumably one of the reasons the winter schedule was proposed to start with, so that instead of having one European championship and one European based world championship running concurrently you could instead have the European championship and then the wealthier teams that want to run on a wider scale could go do the world championship with a focus on races on other continents as well.

The way the schedule evolved with Audi and Porsche that was never ultimately an option. Even now though it might take a significant rework to the ELMS calendar to allow teams to do the Fuji and Shanghai races though, because even though all but one ELMS race takes place earlier in the year than those would be the freight would need to be on the boat round about the end of August.

Actually that brings up another thing. With the way the schedule was currently constructed they have to fly the cars from America to Japan, and China to Bahrain to arrive in time. By eliminating rounds of questionable prestige and spreading out the overseas events so they can all be done by sea they cut the travel costs enormously. If the press release statements about shipping are referring to that specifically they might still have the planes for last minute cargo in which case you could send equipment ahead of time on the boat then fly the car over and still maybe do both championships if they just shorten ELMS a bit.

It also becomes a lot more appealing for European based teams to do Daytona if all of their stuff is going to be in Florida anyways. Imagine if not only Ford ran 4 cars at Daytona but BMW and Porsche as well.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 01:19 (Ref:3763633)   #346
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Wow! That schedule is shocking. The WEC as we know it is dead.

Only 4 races in 2018. Forget the whole super season thing. That is a gimmick. Wont get into 2019 stuff yet.

Aston Martin should seriously consider IMSA now. IMSA might be the big winner out of this. There profile increases substantially and now the Weathertech series is going to be at or better than ALMS 2008. Probably better because of the strength of the GT classes to go along with DPI. ELMS will probably get a boost too I imagine.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 01:22 (Ref:3763634)   #347
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I like the double race idea. I bet you see more one-off entries too with the rules opened up. We may see a DPi take part in both races with two different teams or maybe the same team with another car? I bet you see GTE teams will be interested in it as well.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 01:43 (Ref:3763636)   #348
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I may have some unpopular opinions regarding Sebring but I will keep most of those to myself. If you're going to Petit Le Mans though, I would count on some interesting palaver around the camp fire.

Firstly, I feel sorry for the British and European fans. My hope was that the spot given up by the COTA round would go to a classic circuit - where the fans are. Unfortunately, the quest for the almighty dollar always wins out. What is right and what happens aren't always the same thing, as they say around here.

This is more pertinent to another forum, but this certainly adds to Formula 1's power in the negotiations with Silverstone. That's pretty interesting isn't it? Hope you have your tinfoil hat nearby.

I'm very surprised that IMSA would agree to a separate event at Sebring. Which event is the true 12 Hours of Sebring? What will ticket prices look like and how is revenue split? Of course there is still quite a bit of time until this event and many details to work out. We don't know what either field will look like yet, so a combined race may still be in the cards.

It sounds like, as of this moment, they have taken travel into account at least. Sebring is not close to anything in the US and takes a long time to get to. I, like many Americans, have 10 days leave so taking an extra day on Monday that early in the year would be a difficult stretch and I am already traveling overnight to get to the event. It certainly would put a damper on traveling to other races during the year.

Sorry if I am being a wet blanket. I'm sure I will come around, but my initial reaction to this news was not positive.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 02:18 (Ref:3763641)   #349
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I may have some unpopular opinions regarding Sebring but I will keep most of those to myself. If you're going to Petit Le Mans though, I would count on some interesting palaver around the camp fire.

Firstly, I feel sorry for the British and European fans. My hope was that the spot given up by the COTA round would go to a classic circuit - where the fans are. Unfortunately, the quest for the almighty dollar always wins out. What is right and what happens aren't always the same thing, as they say around here.

This is more pertinent to another forum, but this certainly adds to Formula 1's power in the negotiations with Silverstone. That's pretty interesting isn't it? Hope you have your tinfoil hat nearby.

I'm very surprised that IMSA would agree to a separate event at Sebring. Which event is the true 12 Hours of Sebring? What will ticket prices look like and how is revenue split? Of course there is still quite a bit of time until this event and many details to work out. We don't know what either field will look like yet, so a combined race may still be in the cards.

It sounds like, as of this moment, they have taken travel into account at least. Sebring is not close to anything in the US and takes a long time to get to. I, like many Americans, have 10 days leave so taking an extra day on Monday that early in the year would be a difficult stretch and I am already traveling overnight to get to the event. It certainly would put a damper on traveling to other races during the year.

Sorry if I am being a wet blanket. I'm sure I will come around, but my initial reaction to this news was not positive.
Looking forward to the PLM talk and maybe so much here. I'm with you on personal and race weekend logistics. It's an odd idea ATM. My hopes is that this will be fine tuned to something more down to earth and perhaps we'll see some benefit for imsa's strong team / manufacturer entry internationally.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:06 (Ref:3763657)   #350
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When the Sebring story initially hit and everyone was thinking the 12 hour would be a combined event, I sort of started getting my hopes up regarding the future of the sport. A combined event would have signified a major shift in attitude from the current owners of the IMSA series. We could have seen the return of Le Mans style pitstops, elimination of the free-lap-back-wave around procedures, open tires in more than one class and most importantly a top Prototype class that still allows technical freedom instead of just decorative OE body kits designed to try and fool viewers into thinking that the regulations aren't restricted to only four "specially favored" race car manufacturers. Sebring (and hopefully Petit) could have returned to something more akin to their former glory. A true competitive sporting event with less of the controlled entertainment produced feel that seems so prevalent in what's left of our sport today.

Unfortunately the too-good-to-be-true combined 2018 Sebring turned out to be not true. Instead we get two "twelve hours of Sebring" which I feel is a really lame idea that further cheapens what used to be a truly legendary event.
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