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Old 4 Feb 2023, 08:41 (Ref:4142590)   #1246
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Wonder when 888 plans to switch back to Ford…
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Old 4 Feb 2023, 08:59 (Ref:4142594)   #1247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Mark Rushbrook, Director of Ford Performance:

- 4th February 2023
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/04...en3-supercars/

Supercars have presided over quite the farce, when a global professional high-level motor company racing division are unhappy with their practices.

Why not give Ford Performance what they want, given they are the only manufacturer in the series, then bring up the other car until it is close or just below (and not vice versa)?

Does the 888 Chevrolet Racing faction have undue and unreasonable political power?!
Good to see someone from Ford speaking up for a change, there is definitely anti Ford sentiment within supercars.
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Old 4 Feb 2023, 21:36 (Ref:4142718)   #1248
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Supercars have presided over quite the farce, when a global professional high-level motor company racing division are unhappy with their practices.
Nice selective use of quotes from the article there. Just read the article and Mark Rushbrook goes on to say:
Quote:
“So, certainly are some concerns there, but we’re working together in a very transparent, collaborative way, just like we do in all other racing series around the world with the series and with Triple Eight as a competitor, as the lead [Chevrolet] homologation team, to find solutions for that.
“We were in a very similar situation in NASCAR about two months before we went racing with the NextGen cars a little over a year ago, and the industry came together in a very collaborative way where Chevy and Toyota and Ford and NASCAR and all of the racing teams rolled up our sleeves, and we shared data, and we looked at it objectively as engineers, and we found solutions and made changes to the cars.
“Less than two months later, we had a start of fantastic season and introduction of that new car and great racing through the full series.
“We approach it that same way in every racing series that we go to, and it’s no different here.
“So, while there are challenges, certainly challenges in front of us, we believe the series understands the urgency that’s required, Newcastle’s not too far away, and that we’re looking forward to a solution to be able to race with parity across both brands.”
Paints a very different picture is you actually look at the full amount of what he said, rather than just quoting part of it out of context.

For sure, the Gen3 process looks like it is coming right down to the wire and also there are issues with parts supply from what I hear and it'll be tight time-wise and spares-wise to begin with (not that unusual for new race machines to be honest).

We'll only know if it has worked (or not) once the cars are on track actually competing against each other.
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Old 4 Feb 2023, 22:25 (Ref:4142727)   #1249
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Nice selective use of quotes from the article there. Just read the article and Mark Rushbrook goes on to say:
He got his point across. He wouldn't be going to the press 4 weeks out from racing, if Ford Performance's concerns weren't falling on deaf ears...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
We'll only know if it has worked (or not) once the cars are on track actually competing against each other.
There has to be a motivation from Supercars to make sure Ford Performance are happy and not just ignored.

Rushbrook shouldn't have to politic this hard for a domestic touring car championship where Ford are the only involved manufacturer. It's silly, right? Ford should be the VIPs with a red carpet, no? They are the only manufacturer in the series after all...
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Old 4 Feb 2023, 22:46 (Ref:4142730)   #1250
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
He got his point across. He wouldn't be going to the press 4 weeks out from racing, if Ford Performance's concerns weren't falling on deaf ears...
....except where he says that it's not unusual and that they're working through it in a transparent and collaborative way. Media have been asking so there was a call and he spoke to them.

Quote:
Rushbrook shouldn't have to politic this hard for a domestic touring car championship where Ford are the only involved manufacturer. It's silly, right? Ford should be the VIPs with a red carpet, no? They are the only manufacturer in the series after all...
I expect that both brands being represented are being treated with equal respect, otherwise the risk of a lop-sided series is high. Being the only OEM active in any series shouldn't bring preferential treatment, no need for red carpet (or in Ford's case, blue) - just professional recognition and balance needed.
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Old 4 Feb 2023, 23:54 (Ref:4142747)   #1251
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....except where he says that it's not unusual and that they're working through it in a transparent and collaborative way.
No he said they (Ford Performance) were trying to work through in a transparent and collaborative way, not that Supercars were doing so. Supercars' silence and lack of release of data (downforce and drag vs ride height vs speed, telemetry of acceleration rates) to fans is deafening!

A repeat of the unjustified continual cuts to the 2019 Mustang to the point where it continually killed its tyres in the 2022 season and lost 80% rather than 50% of races is something Ford Performance would naturally seek to avoid.

Quote:
I think similar for aero; I think we showed when we brought current car that we’re racing [Gen2 Mustang], that the people from Ford Performance developing that car are very capable to develop a fantastic race car.
- Mark Rushbrook
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/04...en3-supercars/

Ford Performance were naturally concerned about the making of the unverified changes made to their previous Mustang, and about the unreliability of the data gathered in the so-called VCAT testing when they observed this VCAT process for their new Mustang, and about the observed lack of straight line performance.

Rushbrook even notes frustration at opaque -- not transparent -- Supercars rule makers refusing to allow Ford Performance to use tools (presumably variable timing) to improve engine calibration:
Quote:
There have been points in time where if you look at our engine and some of the advanced technologies on it with what we're able to do with that engine on the road car, we're not able to do the same things in the race car, on the race engine. Some of those knobs and dials have been been turned off. That is the frustrating part, I think, for us.
- Mark Rushbrook
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/ford-bos...arity-dispute/

Why would Rushbrook note frustration if he was happy with a transparent and respectful process?!

Why would the "knobs and dials" be turned off if the Supercars organisers are fully committed to ensuring paritisation and no disadvantage?!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 5 Feb 2023 at 00:15.
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Old 5 Feb 2023, 00:43 (Ref:4142757)   #1252
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Addendum:

downforce and drag vs ride height vs speed vs yaw


Obviously they can only get the yaw data by using a wind tunnel with a turntable, not by running up and down a runway. Nor by extracting from mini-sector times on a racetrack, as that is an asinine way of establishing aero data in yaw!

Get this aero map data and release it to fans to show everything is equal -- "how hard can it be".
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Old Yesterday, 23:06 (Ref:4142927)   #1253
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Does the 888 Chevrolet Racing faction have undue and unreasonable political power?!
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I understand your point but I really don't believe that 888 have undue influence in the process - the process itself is the issue.

If Supercars want to race different body types/engines against each other than they need to step into the 21st century with their testing process.

The problem now is even if they get the two cars even, because there is doubt in regards to the archaic process it's all to easy to point the finger.

My suspicion is T8 develop their car around VCAT, Ford don't. No point making your car fast/slippery in a way that shows up at VCAT and T8 knows it
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