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Old 13 Mar 2019, 18:31 (Ref:3890180)   #2566
Mike Bell
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Back to the future- not cars but date lines. Just arrived back home after NZ jaunt but didn't go to PI with Iain, had a couple of weeks in French Polynesia to get over the stress of (not) racing. This meant crossing the date line twice as we opted to come home via NZ and Singapore rather than risk reported delays in the US due to lengthy immigration procedures even when just transitting. Anyhoo...we have a family tradition of trying to be the first with the 'pinch punch' thing with the kids on the 1st of the month. We were in Auckland airport at midnight on 28th Feb, 13 hours ahead of UK so won that one, then after a 5 hour flight to Tahiti arrived the day before we left and got them again. Coming home we left Tahiti for a 5 hour flight to Auckland, and arrived 2 days later. Eat your heart out Marty McFly🤣

When my brain catches up I'll put some pics up from NZ.
Nice to hear you found your way back eventually, Colin! Look forward to some pics in the fullness of time.
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 12:29 (Ref:3890414)   #2567
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Nice to hear you found your way back eventually, Colin! Look forward to some pics in the fullness of time.

Mike, did you originally write that as

"Look forward to some pictures this time."?




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Old 14 Mar 2019, 12:33 (Ref:3890415)   #2568
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Suggestions welcomed as to why this policy comes under the purview of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. And what effects it is likely to have on the heating market?

"Gas heating ban for new homes from 2025"


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47559920
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 12:36 (Ref:3890416)   #2569
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This was written into the Building Regulations about two years ago. No idea why it would fall under the Treasury though.
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 13:01 (Ref:3890420)   #2570
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It’s a second attempt to get new house build to use only ‘carbon free’ heating. As Peter says, it was added to the building regs a while ago, but the date has now been put back to 2025.

Gas hobs still allowed, so maybe a little creative thinking needed to use one for heating as well! Presume oil already off or also off the list?

Will make house battery storage units such as the T***a Powerwall more popular. I know someone who already has them installed, and together with solar panels and ‘heat recovery’ heating, they are almost self sufficient at times.

I would love the opportunity and money to build a new home with all the latest energy saving technology built in. One day......
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 13:22 (Ref:3890429)   #2571
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It’s a second attempt to get new house build to use only ‘carbon free’ heating. As Peter says, it was added to the building regs a while ago, but the date has now been put back to 2025.

Gas hobs still allowed, so maybe a little creative thinking needed to use one for heating as well! Presume oil already off or also off the list?

Will make house battery storage units such as the T***a Powerwall more popular. I know someone who already has them installed, and together with solar panels and ‘heat recovery’ heating, they are almost self sufficient at times.

I would love the opportunity and money to build a new home with all the latest energy saving technology built in. One day......
How much more would a triple glazed fully "sealed" but correctly filtered and fresh air circulated home actually cost and what would be the payback period?

Likewise the Solar Panel and Powerwalled properties - what is the payback period with all incentive payments removed? Over what period does the installation 'recover' its initial ecologically damaging production activities.

Once such installations become mainstream (if that can ever happen - not sure the wider economics stack up at all) how much will people need to pay for on-demand electricity when "renewable" resources are unable to deliver?

What facilities will there be to deliver the "on demand" supply?
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 14:45 (Ref:3890455)   #2572
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Why does there have to be a ‘payback period’?

I’d do it just to save energy use, regardless.
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 15:53 (Ref:3890465)   #2573
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Why does there have to be a ‘payback period’?

I’d do it just to save energy use, regardless.
So what is the energy saving payback period for the energy used in producing the raw materials, manufacturing, shipping and installing the required items?

Ditto the expected "pollution" recovery period?

How much "pollution" do we create now in order to say that pollution has been reduced in the future?

And since this rush is mostly driven by the CO2 wheeze - how much additional CO2 output do we create now (at a time when we are told by some that even immediate reduction will not be enough to "save the planet") in order to satisfy projected claims that humanity can control the planet's climate at some future point and thus prevent claimed overheating possibilities?

Anyway Mike, you are away from home a lot of the time compared to many. Your opportunity time for energy saving would, presumably, only apply when at home and thus is greatly reduced. To make full use of your investment you would need to stay at home more.

BTW, I love the way that people see a heat pump, especially a ground source heat pump, as a fantastic way to make a lot of energy savings.

The down side is that in certain places the ground conditions mean that the components need replacing after a decade or less. That might well fall foul of revised regulations and so require more extensive and earlier than required changes in other parts of the system. That comes with a cost not the least cost being that related to a shorter lifetime for productive use of items that consumed energy during their production.

Early unplanned obsolescence. Or, described another way, wastage.

Still, our leaders are good at wastage.

Refurbishing the Houses of Parliament, for example, is a complete waste of time, money and energy.

It makes a nice vanity project though.
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 18:08 (Ref:3890489)   #2574
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Suggestions welcomed as to why this policy comes under the purview of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. And what effects it is likely to have on the heating market?

"Gas heating ban for new homes from 2025"


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47559920

This was originally reported in 2016
http://www.ccsassociation.org/news-a...on-ccs-report/
Where a report by Lord Oxburgh concluded that , "If UK houses were insulated up to the standard of houses in Austria , then it would only need another 200 GW of electric generation capacity to heat them with electricity ".

So that would be another 50 plus Hinckly C power stations , approx £1000 Billion , plus about the same again to upgrade the grid .
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 19:40 (Ref:3890505)   #2575
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Payback for ilictricity? Just have a look here where we were much encouraged to produce our own and resale it to the gov' at a much higher rate than when you buy it direct!!!
How does it work I dunno. But this gave ideas to many unofficial agencies installing officially solar panels on not rich people roofs. The best target was retired expecting electricity for free plus some pennies. Mainly the system is worn out far before any accounting balance is reached. C'est beau la France quand ça déconne à plein tubes! Delivered by Fedex to FedUp people!
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3890506)   #2576
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This was originally reported in 2016
http://www.ccsassociation.org/news-a...on-ccs-report/
Where a report by Lord Oxburgh concluded that , "If UK houses were insulated up to the standard of houses in Austria , then it would only need another 200 GW of electric generation capacity to heat them with electricity ".

So that would be another 50 plus Hinckly C power stations , approx £1000 Billion , plus about the same again to upgrade the grid .

Peanuts.

Mind you, by the time new build (absent any more subsidies to pay the senior management of the builders) reaches a scale that become truly meaningful for any part of the objective, it will be today's Primary School children who will be paying for it.

I hope they appreciate the legacy.
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Old 14 Mar 2019, 20:00 (Ref:3890509)   #2577
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Payback for ilictricity? Just have a look here where we were much encouraged to produce our own and resale it to the gov' at a much higher rate than when you buy it direct!!!
How does it work I dunno. But this gave ideas to many unofficial agencies installing officially solar panels on not rich people roofs. The best target was retired expecting electricity for free plus some pennies. Mainly the system is worn out far before any accounting balance is reached. C'est beau la France quand ça déconne à plein tubes! Delivered by Fedex to FedUp people!
It's the same throughout Europe and the North American countries as far as I can tell.

Once subsidies stop most sales stop as well.

When you have politicians who are stupid enough to think they can convince most of their electorate that "smart meters" will save them money you know you have fundamental problems coming over the horizon.

When they tell you the saving will be £39 per annum - basically nothing compared to a typical bill, you know they are being extremely economical with the truth.

When they revise the number and say the real saving (only delivered through behaviour change, somehow) will be £11 you know it's a scam.

When they then start to cap retail electricity costs and the bills appear to go down at the first appearance of the cap, you smell a con trick in progress.

When at the first review (every 6 months apparently, I don't recall reading about that) the prices look like they will go up by about 3x the earlier reduction 'as allowed by the formula) you know that the large utilities suppliers have conned the negotiators in exactly the same way that the mobile phone companies did a couple of years back.

I await, with interest, to see which ministers who might have been involved with the decisions decide to leave politics come the next General Election and then take a well paid sinecure job with one of the utilities they claimed to be controlling.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 00:14 (Ref:3890552)   #2578
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I had a "thermal store" central heating system fitted about 18 months ago.
Basically it's the same as "normal" central heating by pumping water through radiators but the water is stored in a massive insulated tank.
The tank is heated by two 3kw immersion heaters and although it is heated on off peak electricity the heaters will kick in when the tank temperature drops to a set temp when in use during the day.
The domestic hot water works through a heat exchanger radiator so only heats the water when it's needed.
The plus side is that there in no maintenance and is dead quite and has been trouble free "so far" !!!
The downsides are that it takes a few hours to heat the tank from cold when it has been left to cool down for a few days if the mains have been off and
it is very expensive to run if it's left on unnecessarily, however I have a wood burning stove to back it up and I never pay for any fuel for it
I can't use solar panels because of the house being a 500 year old oak beamed grade 2 listing but we managed to get double glazing installed.
We did look into an oil fired or liquid gas installation (no mains gas unfortunately) that would have been dearer initially to install but would be cheaper to run, however what with maintenance and ever rising fuel costs plus heating oil theft (that is rife in our area) I made the decision to give it a go as electricity is always going to be there.
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 06:25 (Ref:3890582)   #2579
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Grant I love you explanations. The calculation mad by politicians must be simple and cynical as on usual. They give us say £39 for the electricity we produce and the get £ 3000 more of different taxes. Anyway I still believe that solar cells installed in some deserts to help people and animals are worth. If not connected to an army related agency…
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Old 15 Mar 2019, 09:27 (Ref:3890616)   #2580
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Grant I love you explanations. The calculation mad by politicians must be simple and cynical as on usual. They give us say £39 for the electricity we produce and the get £ 3000 more of different taxes. Anyway I still believe that solar cells installed in some deserts to help people and animals are worth. If not connected to an army related agency…
The Ivanpah solar plant in America , possibly the most advanced type & built in a desert , has never made any money & might be shut down because it probably never will .
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/03/...rced-to-close/

Germany has a lot of Solar plants , & I believe that during the Winter they produce about 1% of their capability , [ their wind generation only does 17% of its rating over the year .] Which is why Germany has the highest electricity costs in the world .

At least France has a lot of Nuclear generation .
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