[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 19 of 22

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The problem is Merc can’t just hope Red Bull will offer the same courtesy anymore, they almost have to fight fire with fire, otherwise they will have no chance

This is not the way I want to see F1 go.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

this sort of political and legal maneuvering tends to occur/escalate when the championship is close...so for me i'm going to take the bad with the good!

It's escalated because the championship is close, but it all started at Silverstone.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is not the way I want to see F1 go.

Neither do I, but sadly it seems we might be on the point of no return for now, due to the scheming of some

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is not the way I want to see F1 go.

Wolff declares that ‘diplomacy has ended’

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-w...plomacy-ended/

[Adam43]

I can see why they have, but I wish they hadn’t resorted to the same crap Red Bull did earlier.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I can see why they have, but I wish they hadn’t resorted to the same crap Red Bull did earlier.

Just days ago they were taking the moral high ground "We want to win the championship on track".

Now that Bottas finished ever so conveniently within 5 seconds of Max, with no chance for Max to manage his race to ensure he stays ahead of that gap, suddenly they are appealing.

They're all as bad as each other.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Just days ago they were taking the moral high ground "We want to win the championship on track".

It’s difficult to win the championship on track if your main competitor is pushing you off it

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I can see why they have, but I wish they hadn’t resorted to the same crap Red Bull did earlier.

I don’t see this and Red Bulls Silverstone protest comparable. Red Bulls response post Silverstone was nothing short of disgraceful. The way they drummed up the media, trolls and then spent tens of thousands on a filming day to create evidence is nothing like how Mercedes are handling themselves.

The same process?, Yes But an entirely different route through it.

This time Mercedes legitimately have evidence not available to the stewards at the time…it’s what this process is set up for.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

None of this would've occurred had Silverstone been dealt with properly.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I don’t see this and Red Bulls Silverstone protest comparable. Red Bulls response post Silverstone was nothing short of disgraceful. The way they drummed up the media, trolls and then spent tens of thousands on a filming day to create evidence is nothing like how Mercedes are handling themselves.

The same process?, Yes But an entirely different route through it.

This time Mercedes legitimately have evidence not available to the stewards at the time…it’s what this process is set up for.

I don’t see it as comparable either, but I still wish they hadn’t bothered. A little like Skam is suggesting. Don’t stoop to the same level, or even near it.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

It’s difficult to win the championship on track if your main competitor is pushing you off it

Agreed, Silverstone really hurt Max's points tally.

[bathurst77]

I think it has become increasingly obvious that when this season is finally over
Lewis and Max's mums will have to give them both a severe talking to.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Agreed, Silverstone really hurt Max's points tally.

Hungary hurt just as much.
Let’s say 45 more points for Max and this would have been over.He wouldn’t have felt the need to get aggressive as he did on Sunday.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Hungary hurt just as much.
Let’s say 45 more points for Max and this would have been over.He wouldn’t have felt the need to get aggressive as he did on Sunday.

Don't forget Baku.

A Mercedes didn't even need to collide with him there, Pirelli finished the job.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Let’s say 45 more points for Max and this would have been over.

Technically - 64 more points for this to be over.
There are 78 more points for Hamilton to get this season, taking him to 396.5.
What if Verstappen had completed more laps in those DNF's - and had to take engine penalties in later races as a result?

In seriousness, almost every WDC could be debated endlessly over where certain contenders lost or gained points. The truth is - the racing we have seen so far, along with the application of the regulations within the racing is held, has seen use enter the last three races with a 14 point gap between the leaders.

[S griffin]

I still believe the gap should be five points less as the non-race at Belgium should never have been counted. OTOH Lewis should have been a lap back in Imola, but for the(IMO) silly SC free pass rule for lapped cars, after the red flag for the Bottas/Russell incident

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Mechanical failure happens, and are the responsibility of the teams that build the car. Getting involved in collsions with drivers/cars are a dime a dozen and a are "accepted evil" of racing. There's a knack to avoiding potential collisions, but you can't quantify it because almost all the time you're not in a crash.

But in the history of F1, there has never been 2nd place in the championship punt off the leader, denying the opportunity of them finishing the race. winning, scoring points, while going on to win the race and receive the full benefit from points gained.

It wasn't dealt with properly, and you get with what you've seen since. It wouldn't surprise me if there'll be more of it before the season's out.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

But in the history of F1, there has never been 2nd place in the championship punt off the leader, denying the opportunity of them finishing the race. winning, scoring points, while going on to win the race and receive the full benefit from points gained.

True - and there still hasn't been such a case (as officially recorded by the FIA).

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Mechanical failure happens, and are the responsibility of the teams that build the car. Getting involved in collsions with drivers/cars are a dime a dozen and a are "accepted evil" of racing. There's a knack to avoiding potential collisions, but you can't quantify it because almost all the time you're not in a crash.

But in the history of F1, there has never been 2nd place in the championship punt off the leader, denying the opportunity of them finishing the race. winning, scoring points, while going on to win the race and receive the full benefit from points gained.

It wasn't dealt with properly, and you get with what you've seen since. It wouldn't surprise me if there'll be more of it before the season's out.

Im curious.

Which part wasnt dealt with properly?

Hamilton recieved a penalty for Silverstone, as he should have, the appropriate penalty for the action.

Prior to this, Max ran Hamilton off the road at Imola, race 1 at Silverstone and in Horners own words, if Hamilton hadnt moved out of the way in Spain, both he and Max would have ended up in the wall.

So if people are trying to insinuate that Max is simply retailiating or ramping up things in response to Silverstone, then they are completely ignoring the hard driving from Max that led up to silverstone.

If those same people are also insinuating that Max is now retaliating, then you are also admitting that he is using his car as a weapon, trying to drive his main championship rival off the road, both at Monza and Brazil....something that should be frowned upon, not used as a mitigating excuse.

This year Lewis has been run off the road at Imola, Spain, Monza, Race 1 Silverstone and Brazil.....he himself has 'caused' 1 incident in Race 2 at Silverstone....and yet somehow, some people seem to think its Lewis thats causing this?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

True - and there still hasn't been such a case (as officially recorded by the FIA).

Although there has been instances of the winner, punting off another driver and taking the race win. take Button 2011 Canada for example....and yet its one of the most celebrated wins in the history of F1.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Although there has been instances of the winner, punting off another driver and taking the race win. take Button 2011 Canada for example....and yet its one of the most celebrated wins in the history of F1.

If my recollection of what I think you are referring to is the incident between Button and Hamilton on the run past the pits towards the chicane, then I am pretty certain that it was Hamilton that attempted to "bully" his way past Button on the inside line, and when Button refused to give way, Hamilton had to take to the grass and lost it.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

If my recollection of what I think you are referring to is the incident between Button and Hamilton on the run past the pits towards the chicane, then I am pretty certain that it was Hamilton that attempted to "bully" his way past Button on the inside line, and when Button refused to give way, Hamilton had to take to the grass and lost it.

No, im referring to the part where Button moved over and put hamilton into the wall, causing hamilton to retire.

not saying it was Buttons fault, he had the weather to blame etc etc but he did 'cause' the incident. Point stands though, incident happen and have happened where drivers who have caused the incident have recovered to win the race

[bjohnsonsmith]

Why is there such a big run off area between Turn 4 and 5?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why is there such a big run off area between Turn 4 and 5?

I think it is in connection to the lake, and associated drainage / watercourse.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think it is in connection to the lake, and associated drainage / watercourse.

Does the actual track require such a huge run off area?