Raikkonen or Massa?

F1Pete · 14 Sep 2006, 11:59 (Ref:1710136)

I remember way back someone asked this question about KR and Montoya. The consensus was KR by a longshot.

Massa is confident, knows the car, the team...so who's it going to be in 2007?

**Adam43** · 14 Sep 2006, 12:06 (Ref:1710142)

Kimi by a long way, because he is quicker. Compare the composure in Hungary Q too.

Molotov · 14 Sep 2006, 12:09 (Ref:1710145)

Massa the first 5 races, Raikonnen the rest of the year. Massa is a very good driver but I don't think he is consistent enough to beat Kimi. It also depends if Ferrari will change their politics about 1st and 2nd drivers. If Kimi is treated like Michael there is no way Massa is gonna win.

Last2LiftOff · 14 Sep 2006, 12:17 (Ref:1710148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molotov

It also depends if Ferrari will change their politics about 1st and 2nd drivers. If Kimi is treated like Michael there is no way Massa is gonna win.

Kimi by some margin. I think he's quicker than Massa anyway - I guess we'll find out - but don't doubt for a second that Ferrari didn't sign Kimi as their No. 1 driver which likely has some advantages, no matter what they might say.

**Adam43** · 14 Sep 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1710153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molotov

Massa the first 5 races, Raikonnen the rest of the year.

I think Kimi from the first race.

Quote:

It also depends if Ferrari will change their politics about 1st and 2nd drivers. If Kimi is treated like Michael there is no way Massa is gonna win.

No.1 driver will be the fastest driver, which will be Kimi anyway (similar to what Last2LiftOff says).

Marbot · 14 Sep 2006, 12:34 (Ref:1710158)

No third car drivers next season,Massa will be the unofficial 'track cleaner/tyre tester'.

neilap · 14 Sep 2006, 13:05 (Ref:1710180)

Well the team still does not know Kimmi well. They know how MS worked and are so impressed they want him to keep driving their cars. If Kimmi can fill MS's shoes then I say he will score many more points but if the team does not gel quickly it could be close. Kimmi is a better racer but Ferrari is ending an era. I doubt it will be an easy transition. At least Massa understands the culture more and has raced with MS. He standes a better chance of carrying on the culture already established there.

**chunterer** · 14 Sep 2006, 13:24 (Ref:1710192)

Just depends on the whether Ferrari continues with existing format.

Ferrari have invested a lot of time and money in Massa so i'm not sure they've done this just for him to be a back up guy have they?!

I think we maybe surprised by the results between him and Kimi...

Clive · 14 Sep 2006, 13:28 (Ref:1710196)

We can really only conjecture. look how Rubins struggled initially in a different team/car, so maybe Kimi won't slot straight in and win, and Filipe is getter better all the time.

shiny side up! · 14 Sep 2006, 14:19 (Ref:1710238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think we maybe surprised by the results between him and Kimi...

I agree. If there is going to be any sort of speed advantage, it will probably go to Kimi, but it will be small. And speed does not always correlate into results, as both of these drivers have shown occaisionally through mechanical fault and driver error.

On racecraft, I don't think that either of them are particularly strong drivers. Kimi is a little more agressive with the pass, I think, but neither are masters of traffic or strategy. I don't think either are particularly strong in the mechanical sympathy category, either. As far as technical/setup aptitude go, there may be an edge for Massa... Kimi is reportedly more of a "I'll show up and drive" kind of driver, whereas Massa has a year's worth of full-time testing for Ferrari as well as a full year of racing/testing... quite a head start in the technical department.

I think it could be a very, very close fight between these two next year... And a lot will depend on their state of mind... A desperate Kimi is very fast, a desperate Felipe will probably end up in the barriers.

**Adam43** · 14 Sep 2006, 14:36 (Ref:1710245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ferrari have invested a lot of time and money in Massa so i'm not sure they've done this just for him to be a back up guy have they?!

They have invested a lot of money in Kimi! They invested a lot of money in Irvine and Barrichello too. Massa looks cheap by comparison.

Whatever they won't purposely hold either of them back, but they will get behind the quicker one. And that will be Kimi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive

We can really only conjecture. look how Rubins struggled initially in a different team/car, so maybe Kimi won't slot straight in and win, and Filipe is getter better all the time.

Maybe being new to the team was a (small) factor in the early Ferrari form of Rubens, but the main reason was that Rubens was no Michael, which is why he appeared to struggled.

Let us not weight these second order effects over the primary reason.

shiny, I disagree with how close you think Massa will be to Kimi over the year, but I do agree with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssu!

I think it could be a very, very close fight between these two next year... And a lot will depend on their state of mind... A desperate Kimi is very fast, a desperate Felipe will probably end up in the barriers.

newoutsider · 14 Sep 2006, 14:51 (Ref:1710259)

There can be no doubt that Kimmi is a far, far better driver tham Massa.

But Massa is 'at home' so will start with an edge (including how the car works with the tyres), so there is a fair chance that he will be close to Kimmi if not in frint of him to start with.

Knowlesy · 14 Sep 2006, 16:50 (Ref:1710324)

I think it will be closer than many think. Massa is very good and will only refine his driving now.

Kimi has more pure speed probably and a lot more composure. He is, however, far from unbeatable.

It depends how Kimi fits in at Ferrari first and foremost.

ralf fan · 14 Sep 2006, 17:48 (Ref:1710362)

Kimi will take it IMO.... Massa has come on leaps and bounds but i reckon Kimi has just a little more quality

BootsOntheSide · 14 Sep 2006, 20:22 (Ref:1710493)

Kimi should be the stronger driver by mid-season, unelss the team decides to focus on Massa for the championship. A couple of reliability problems early in the year and we could see Massa leading the championship from (say) Alonso, which might leave Kimi playing the 1B role.

Down F0rce · 14 Sep 2006, 21:08 (Ref:1710510)

Massa will support Raikkonen just like he did Schumi. Kimi is the clear favorite for the title next year for me at least.

F1Pete · 14 Sep 2006, 21:25 (Ref:1710519)

I read an article a long time ago in F1 Magazine (where the Nige was the Editor). Anyway, the engineers at Sauber said Kimi was good, but Massa is an animal!

ljakse · 14 Sep 2006, 21:31 (Ref:1710523)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think we maybe surprised by the results between him and Kimi...

Yes, when we see that Kimi is actually even faster than he looked in McLaren.

People often say that first battle an F1 driver has is against his teammate, and this one will be easy for Kimi.

**Adam43** · 14 Sep 2006, 21:36 (Ref:1710528)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Anyway, the engineers at Sauber said Kimi was good, but Massa is an animal!

Was it an article on Massa by any chance?

Anyway, what is better? Good or animal?

SALEEN S7R · 14 Sep 2006, 21:47 (Ref:1710538)

Personally I would expect Raikonen to be faster, although not by much. Massa has shown this year just how good a driver he is, hes made very few mistakes and has done a good job all year round. So far he is doing better job than Barichello managed during his time at Ferrari which is no mean feat. IMO.

Still, Raikonen should be a little faster most of the time, just dont write off Massa...

**Bononi** · 14 Sep 2006, 21:52 (Ref:1710540)

I expect Kimi to be faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Was it an article on Massa by any chance?

Anyway, what is better? Good or animal?

A good animal or a bad animal ???

freud · 14 Sep 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1710583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Massa will support Raikkonen just like he did Schumi. .

I dont think so, buddy. Get ready to see Massa and Kimi battle it out at least for the first half of the 2007 season. I think with His Highness the King Herr Michael out of F1, Ferrari will get back to 'normal mode'. I am sincerely hoping they do.

Honestly, I cant wait for next year.. I think 2007 will be the best racing season in sometime and my gut feeling tells me it will be Kimi vs Massa for the title (with some intermittent wins by Button, Alonso, Heikki and potentially Heidfeld in an improved BMW).

Kirk · 14 Sep 2006, 23:09 (Ref:1710593)

First off. I think it is high time to eat crow .... for all those that wrote Massa off, as a one season fill-in at Ferrari. And there were a hell of a lot of people in that group. I look for Kimi and Massa to be very close in pace and it should prove to be quite an interesting match up, and likely the best one-two punch in F1 (unless RD signs JV to drive alongside Alonso

).

MRJUCY · 14 Sep 2006, 23:44 (Ref:1710601)

I think even if the team did try & set it self up around Massa like they did TGF Kimi would still wipe the floor with him.

Kirk · 14 Sep 2006, 23:49 (Ref:1710603)

Here we go again! Massa is as fast as anyone in F1 and as good as Kimi is, he will have to be at his best to beat him.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Raikkonen: qualifying?	Menelaos	Formula One	43	10 Jul 2005 11:29
What did you think to Kimi Raikkonen?	Raven	Formula One	48	7 Mar 2002 17:52
It's all Raikkonen in Valencia	Raven	Formula One	16	21 Jan 2002 09:54
kimi raikkonen...	gomick	National & International Single Seaters	12	4 Oct 2001 22:23