Tell me this is a joke!

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by gaines
What if Tony George hadn't of done what he did? Do you guys think CART would still be going strong or do you think Penske, Ganassi and the rest of bad politics mixed with the horrible management we used to have would have shot the cost of racing to near F1 proportions? I don't agree with what TG did but let's face it, the series was out of control, had it not gotten into that state in the first place TG wouldn't have done what he did. He was just one of the sharks in the shark tank. Given the same chance Penske, Ganassi and some of the others would have done the same thing. Maybe not the same way but they would have held the Indy 500 up for ransom and tried to grab all the power. I guarantee it. It's just a shame a bunch of millionaires act like little kids. TG's pitiful, "It's my ball and I'll go home if you don't like my rules!" Indy 500 tactics and everybody else's, "It's not fair (Insert Honda, Toyota here) gets more money than I do, (Insert Rahal, Penske, Ganassi, Forsythe, etc) get more privileges than I do." **** screwed up the series. Yes TG is a bunghole and a half but he's not the only one!

[GP Racer]

What happened to my post!? Aargg!

I'll try again.

Cart had plenty of problems, and most here would acknowledge that. Alot, if not all though, see one guy as the real boogeyman , and thats TG. I'm not sure if he's better or worse than any of the others though.

We all make decisions in our lives that we feel are the best for ourselves. Some of those decisions can make people in our lives angry and upset, but we still make them, because we feel there right for us. Thats the same as TG and PG and all of the other players here. There doing what they feel is right for them. The only difference is there decisions affect alot more people, but the process is still the same.

These guys are businessmen that are in business to make money. If you were in TG's shoes in 94, and you felt that your race, which is your life, was being threatened, what would you have done? If you were Andretti, team owner, and you thought your series was going bankrupt, and your company and its employees would suffer, what would you have done?

As a fan, these decisions are easy to make, but as a businessman, there much tougher. I'm a fan of racing, and whoever can bring us a stable series, I'll back. Its time to take the emotion out of it and see it for what it is, a business.

All I ask is that there be one series, period...

[dirtfan]

Well thought out post, GP.
By the way, what WAS this terrible thing TG did?
If you're referring to the 25/8 rule in '95, it was just an anti-cherrypicking rule. Anybody could have qualified for Indy by simply running another IRL race (and getting IRL points), something any prudent team would have done anyway. CART, on the other hand, was like the NFL- you couldn't race if you weren't a franchise holder.
Indy was the only "open" race on the CART calendar.
USAC used to ban drivers if they raced another series (Jimmy Sills/Luke Warmwater etc).
Splitting sanctioning bodies never works out in the fan's best interest, be it CART/IRL, USAC/SCRA or any of the complicated manuverings in the Sports Car world.

[climb]

Very wise, GP racer

[Ac.]

Picked from another site, the author of this info is Don Slenka from Champweb so take it for what you think it is worth.

"At any rate, Paul Gentilozzi and Tony George have been talking, and on December 2nd, the two came to an agreement of sorts, which would be discussed further at the end of January. The basic idea is this: 2004 will see a public cooperation between the two series, leaving 2005 to become the new era for open wheel racing in North America. The 2004 Champ Car season will most likely have anywhere from 14-16 races with 18-20 cars on the grid and a TV package that will consist of Spike TV/CBS.

The first lesson here is to never underestimate the relationship between Tony George and Paul Gentilozzi. The two have done business together in the past, and in the meantime have maintained a friendly relationship. The plan for the 2005 is a 20-23 race schedule with about 45-55% of the events consisting of road course and ovals. The grid would consist of roughly 25-28 cars under one banner, with ABC/ESPN as the TV partner."

[GP Racer]

Sounds very plausible, and sounds damn good!

If true, I think that thats a plan that everyone(well, almost everyone!)could live with. Its exactly what I've been looking for. Look at it, almost 50/50 on the type of courses, plenty of cars, and they'll be the best of the lot, over 20 races, with a great TV deal! I've had dreams of a series like this, but when I see it in print, it looks even better!

I can only hope its true. Who's Don Slenka anyway, is he at all reliable?

Could to have you back climb, I missed you!

[dirtfan]

"2004 will see a public cooperation between the two series"
A lot of the bad blood between the series was caused by Andrew Craig waiting until TG posted the IRL calendar, and then dropping CART dates on top of the IRL dates, or scheduling CART out of the country, so there could be no cooperation.
"There's nothing sacrosanct about Indy"
"We have the real cars and the real stars"
"We will crush you"
- or was that last one Kruschev?

[GP Racer]

As I've said before dirtfan, these are different guys and different times.

What movie said, "build it, and they will come"?

PS-Yeah, I think it was Kruschev, and how wrong was he?!

[dirtfan]

Sorry, I left out the line "Hot Damn, It's about time! between lines 1 & 2.
Guess I need some more coffee.

[Ac.]

I'll let some of the other members weigh in on the reliability of Don's sources. Don runs Champweb which does publish a lot of rumour regarding Champ Cars.

[gttouring]

well whether or not Champcars disappear as we know it so will the IRL as we know it. Down with the IRL down with CART long live NorthAmerican OpenWheel racing.
be it united which is what we wanted all along- maybe not like this, maybe with the death of the IRL, but one healthy series with the regular cast of character we know and love will make it all better, now engine rules and chassis packages need to be tweaked to get the best of both but we now have one big supe series of ovals (as they both had) and Road Course (which had been a CART exclusive) what is so terrible, we will still have Laguna- LongBeach
Fontana! Michigan! Milwaukee! ROAD AMERICA- MidOhio Montreal, Vancouver! look at the bright side-
and GASP might ISC make a deal for WATKINS GLEN?!
this may be the best thing to happen since CART was formed, now we might have the INDY we knew- albeit with a Jack Nmaed TG with too much control, but that can change a little.
Let's look at the positives- we may once again have an Open Wheel series to take on Nascar as the pinnacle of all racing. (outside of LeMans of course :O )
Rumor or not- is it athe silver lining to the cloud of this schism and collapse?

[Jordi]

I just hope something happens....

[Dov]

Originally posted by Ac.
I'll let some of the other members weigh in on the reliability of Don's sources. Don runs Champweb which does publish a lot of rumour regarding Champ Cars.

From Paper at CW:
a couple pf comments.. there is only one car that can do all circuits, the champcar, I do not envision this as something that will cause all equipment obsolete,, just the cars that are limited. Who would that be? the use of the cosworth and return of the japanese motors just sitting doing nothing makes the venture low cost at first. With the pitiful year the IRL and indy are facing their leverage will sink quickly before any hypothetical merge takes place in 9 months from now. Their refusal to meet halfway reduces with every tick of the clock. On champweb, I have found out more accurate stuff in advance that has taken place from don this year than any site, he has not printed stuff that is told to many friends off line. he has become a valued hard working freind that puts a lot of time into the sport. He has come a very long way. One phone conversation and you realize he is a very smart young man with goals.. and most certainly." not a dummy". For those who dis-agree, fine,, but I think on that claim for the sake fo fairness, Perhaps a resume comparison would settle the boldness of the accusation. Champcar needs all the positive press, devoted fans and freinds , and hard fighting defenders it can get. Don does is part his way and I know for fact it is now appreciated to the top. For a dummy thats pretty damn good, what have his critics supplied that can equal that? paper

[climb]

The hipothesis of a Gentilozzi-George axe is undoubtedly interesting; should it bring to the mentioned scenario, I agree with GP Racer that Open wheel in the States could live a new dawn.
It would be very interesting for teams, drivers, fans, sponsors... not bad at all!

BTW: GP Racer, happy to re-find your good posts!

[Ac.]

Not sure why Paper is posting through Dov, or where the "dummy" reference came from. My original post was not derogatory to Don, it simply indicated that Champweb posts numerous rumours regarding Champ Car. While I enjoy Champweb and the service it provides regardless of the accuracy of some of the rumours, Don has both supporters and detractors on this forum. I was simply asking them to discuss their opinions for GP Racer and others who may not know of Don and Champweb.

[extreme]

All i really hope is that they keep that CART/OWRS Chassis for what ever comes out. That is by far the sexiest car in all of motor racing

[Wethat]

This is a joke!

[gttouring]

What is a joke Wethat? this whole thread- the rumor, or that Champcars are the coolest chassis?
becasue they are.

[Fogelhund]

Thought - Perhaps a new chassis will be built and constructed that is neither CART nor IRL, but built specifically for the demands a mixed series would require. Then nobody can complain about which chassis is being used...its just the new reconciled Open Wheel Chassis.

[rodrigomarban]

It may be true, as I also read it in a website here in Mexico.


EDIT: LOL, I have just realized it was the same source Dov stated

[macdaddy]

I believe that Wethat was just following Dov's orders, as per the title of the thread!

[Flatspot]

Indeed, and welcome Wethat.

[Wethat]

Thank's Flatspot Okay..I admit it was a little lame.