The cost of race entries 2011

[Robert Morris]

We must all be thinking about budgets etc for 2011 now how do you see the race entry fees going with the smaller grids and less sponsorship.
Do you think the circuit owners will reduce there cost ?

[chezza]

I think that'll be unlikely...they have a business to run and so are very unlikely to lower their hire fees.

[graeme]

Can't see circuits reducing hire fees - and if numbers are going down - the organising clubs would have to put up their entry fees. Unless they actually did something about it - amalgamating grids, actually dumping races with a handful of cars, sending championships with small turnouts to the small/cheap circuits, etc - but that's not likely to happen... I predict another three new series with six cars each next year!

[Code Red Man.]

Are you having a laugh Rob?
Have you ever seen the entry costs go down recently??

[andy97]

Well the increase in VAT is going to hit the entry fees (as well as the cost of fuel/ tyres/ accom etc etc) if nothing else.

[graeme]

Entry fees are VAT exempt

[chezza]

Whilst Graeme makes a point re low grid numbers etc, dumping races with low grid numbers doesn't help the situation...the 6 entry fees that you might have got from that race you would have to refund...and then you've lost even more money/have to make it up from elsewhere, hence why you see a lot of low grid numbers, anything is better than nothing!

Altho entry vees are VAT exempt, the hire of the circuit isn't so this will push fees up albeit inadvertantly.

[graeme]

Fair point - the low number grids have to bumped (or amalgamated) before the beginning the season

[chezza]

Sadly though clubs can set up as many series as they like and these aren't monitored as closely as the championships and they often have low numbers of entries. There is nothing in place to force these to be almagamated/dumped at the start of the season. Also in the current climate there have been some very successful championships that have seen a drop in numbers that wasn't expected at the start of the season and who knows by next year might have bumper grids again.

I wish the clubs would see sense and almagamate grids more often (as I marshal I don't like to see races with low numbers of cars), although sometimes thats not always possible if the series with low grid numbers have a big speed differences etc. Also whilst amalgamating grids is great, you often can't do this til the last minute before the meeting and then this generally leaves a big hole in the timetable as the clubs are unable to draft in another championship/series at the last minute to fill vacant slot so you're still left with not making the money that you need and fees going up!

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by chezza

Altho entry vees are VAT exempt, the hire of the circuit isn't so this will push fees up albeit inadvertantly.

Why wouldn't the clubs reclaim the VAT then?

[graeme]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Why wouldn't the clubs reclaim the VAT then?

I was going to say that, but don't know much about tax regulations

What's happened to the yellow & red card scheme? It seems that championships get a warning, say they'll get bigger next season (by poaching drivers from a similar championship - meanwhile the other championship is saying exactly the same...) then get a calendar for the next season - and still only turnout half-a-dozen cars!

[chezza]

They probably can do...but again I don't know a great deal about tax regulations, I'm sure someone may be along shortly to advise.

Thats a very good question and one the MSA would probably fail to answer , however that too wouldn't solve the grid size problem. Ok the championship would have its permit taken away by the MSA because they don't have enough cars, but that doesn't stop it running as a series and the low grid races continuing.

[Al Weyman]

I didnt see fees go down when they dropped vat to 15%, we have problems now with entries so time for some realistic thinking from everyone as its unsustainable.

[RTH]

If there is intransigence all round then there will be smaller grids = fewer races= fewer race meetings and it will spiral downwards.

[vjay48]

A very simple fix would be for some clubs to reduce the number of meetings they attempt to run,therefore their championships/series can be spread around less sparsely. I wonder do bike clubs have the same problems,i notice that half a days testing at snett this friday is £40,surely the circuits have the same fixed costs whether cars or bikes are using them. Or are bike racing perceived to be poorer so they get charged less?

[Al Weyman]

They probably can get more on the track at same time?

[SFurness]

Hi,

I'm told that the Classic Sports Car Club (by the CSCC) are are holding their fees for 2011 the same as 2010, subject to unforseen circumstances.

Steve

[chezza]

Fingers crossed for the CSCC the circuits don't hike their fees up too much then!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by RTH

If there is intransigence all round then there will be smaller grids = fewer races= fewer race meetings and it will spiral downwards.

and prices will go up as the clubs/track owner will need the same or more money despite falling numbers unless other ways can be found to utilise the tracks on non race days.

Originally Posted by SFurness

Hi,

I'm told that the Classic Sports Car Club (by the CSCC) are are holding their fees for 2011 the same as 2010, subject to unforseen circumstances.

Steve

They've always been over priced anyway so nothing new there.

[SFurness]

Tim,

You can do a second race this weekend for £95.


Are you stopping over Saturday night, we are bravely camping over.

Steve

[R59]

£40 - eh? It's £49 on the woodland circuit at Cadwell for bikes, It's next Snetterton Car test day on a Friday is the 17th, and that's £150 for the afternoon.

The circuit's costs are still going up, so I can't see the hire fees falling. The best we could hope for is a no-change.

The only way to reduce entry fees is to run full grids, fill up the spectator areas, and use the gate fees to pay or offset the circuit fees.

Look - there's a pig flying upside-down over the horizon (en-route to Cloud Cuckoo land)

[MGDavid]

at MGCC Cadwell last weekend they had a spare race slot, so billed a 1 hour all-comers at the end of the day; with a week to go the entries were so thin they appealed to members to have a free run to fill the grid - we were more than happy to help out 3 faultfree races and two minor awards marked a successful debut for our MG ZS

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by graeme

Entry fees are VAT exempt

Just read this on the HSCC website (supplementary regs for the Walter Hayes Trophy meeting):

The Walter Hayes Trophy meeting is being organised by the HSCC on behalf of Silverstone Circuits Ltd ("SCL") of 110 Jermyn Street, London SW1Y 6RH, for whom they are acting as agents. The race entry fees quoted includes VAT at 17.5%. SCL is registered in England, No. 882843.

[juliann]

Ref the VAT.

It's all pretty complex and bridges a number of different VAT rules.

Suffice to say, if a Club claims VAT back on the circuit hire charges , it then has to add VAT onto race entries.

Some circuits, however, don't charge VAT on hire.

As a Club, you can't claim VAT back on much of the motorsport related activities, so it's often better for a Club not to be VAT registered (which can be done despite normal registration thresholds)





An opening negotiation stance with the circuit operators for 2011 could be along the lines of "The Club" will charge the circuit a fee of £x,xxx for the privelige of hosting our races. The circuit then has the opportunity to raise revenue as follows :

1) Spectator entry to the circuit

2) Drivers & Spectators use of lavatorial facilities (£1 per litre and/or £2 per LB)

3) Gravel trap parking charges of £5 / minute, plus £100 clamp release fee.

4) Lawncare fee of 20p per blade of grass found attached to vehicles in Park Ferme

5) £20 per driver/race if drivers wish to be timed during the race.

6) £20 per driver charge to be released for qually in 1st 10 cars.

7) Safety scrutineering fee of £30

8) Podium access fees (£50 per step)

9) Sign on fee £2 per letter of surname

10) Payment processing fee - £20 or any suitable body part.


Julian O'Leary

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by SFurness

Tim,

You can do a second race this weekend for £95.


Are you stopping over Saturday night, we are bravely camping over.

Steve

I don't really want a second race as it'll be the last one of the day and I need to get away sharpish on Sunday. I'm driving up Sunday morning but I think you'll be OK with the weather though, it's not looking too bad.