So what did we see in Brazil?????

[J.McClane]

Well we saw Ralf chicken out of overtakin' his brother yet again, just like Canada last year. What is the point if you aint got the guts to overtake, this is why Ralf will not be a champ, get him off the track.

And of course we saw Shu get away with yet another illegal move, he moved to defend his position then moved back. If anyone else would have done that they would have recived a penalty

The FIA may aswell just hand all the points to Shu, this way i wouldn't be wastin' my time watchin' the races.

[TeddyG]

I agree F1 is getting ridiculous with their favoritism towards Shumi...and Ralph has finally lost all credibilty with me as a racer after watching that race I realise that he is just a big ham that takes easy points I mean he didn't even once look like he might even try to overtake!! I just would love to see what it would have been like if Montoya or Jacques got a chance to be in Ralph's position....oooooo I would love that sooo much...I have never seen Ralph ever make a gutsy move on anyone before and if someone could inform me if he ever has I'd like to hear about it!...otherwise go home Ralph and give that ride to someone who has at least an ounce of aggression in them

[Ralf's Girl]

J McClane - this may sound rude, but that's utter rubbish.

Firstly, Ralf scored 6 points. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but is finishing second better than not finishing at all? Hmm...
A lot of the time, Ralf wasn't even close enough to overtake - and anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge about F1 knows that with the aerodynamics of modern cars, they don't often like being in the dirty air behind another car. But seeing as it's Ralf, that is overlooked - no doubt if it was JPM who had been in that position you'd be leaping to his defence.

And secondly, there was nothing illegal in what TGF did. The "one move" rule, I believe (but correct me if I'm wrong), is only applicable to the start - after that, the guy in front is entitled to move to defend his position. It wouldn't be considered particularly sporting, but he would be within the rules. But TGF didn't do that - Montoya ws the one doing all the weaving (the words "rose-tinted glasses" spring to mind), the result being that he made a stupid mistake and ran into the back of TGF. There was no cheating and no penalty necessary. End of story.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl

Montoya ws the one doing all the weaving

to which he's entitled to RG, he was the "attacker" not the "defender".tgcf moved twice, and thats not allowed end of story!

btw, rafe just sitting there and excepting 2nd is not going to win the championship, jpm trying but failing to overtake tgf might not win him the wdc either, but at least it mark's him out as a "racer"

[Sato san]

i love racers......not dirty dogs , and not big hams !

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by mr v


......................... jpm trying but failing to overtake tgf might not win him the wdc either, but at least it mark's him out as a "racer"

You might consider throwing away a certain second good racing. To me it marks JPM out as an unthinking fool. He's got to start using his brains if he's to win consistenetly. And even if you don't like it, so far he's been outraced by Ralf and TGF.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett


He's got to start using his brains if he's to win consistenetly. And even if you don't like it, so far he's been outraced by Ralf and TGF.

the trouble is, jpm's brain doesn't control his opponents actions, tgf moved twice, like it or not, thats not allowed! and how can coming from very near the back (twice in maylasia) in the last 2 races, setting fastest lap in the process in both mean he's been out raced, ok, he's finished behind, but never out raced!

[expert]

I agree it's time for ralfie to leave f1 (or at least williams), maybe together with DC and barrichello. because as far as any real racing fan is concerned, they're just taking up space that should be taken by some real racing-drivers like fisichella, villeneuve and alonso!

[Splatz the Cow]

Sorry Ralf's Girl I agree Ralf is fast, and mature, but I really think he could have done more, especially on his in laps. Really disappointing stuff coz for some weird reason, I honestly don't know why, but... I was barracking for Ralfie and he didn't even try. Hi, um.. I'm a Juan Montoya fan, and well I was cheering Ralf... Ralf Supporters Annonymous.

And you'll need to re-read the rules again coz you are 100% incorrect. Section 6, Drivers code a conduct - Overtaking. Check previous threads as I posted it before, or the FIA regs on their site (where I got it from.)

[Sato san]

Befoe Juan will ever win a championship , he is gonna have to seriously sort out TGCF ,and get the FIA to stand up and punish drivers whether their names are MICHAEL or not.

[J.McClane]

Bottom line is Ralf is **** and Shu can cheat and get away with it. And we have plenty more races to see just how true this is.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by J.McClane
Bottom line is Ralf is ****

That was highly intellectual - very deep.

Ralf was obviously trying hard on his in laps, but there are the factors of the car and tyres to take into account - and I'm not sure it was really Michelin's day yesterday.

I stand corrected on the subject of the overtaking rule - although I maintain that I didn't see TGF make two moves across the racing line. All I saw was him taking his normal line and JPM diving around behind him.

[J.McClane]

1st Shu was over on the right side of the track and moved left to defend his position when Monty took his lunge at him, Shu then moved back towards the right and stoped in the middle of the track when he saw Monty's front wing come off. So in short, Shu moved left and then right, wich as far as i can see is 2 moves and got away with an illegal move.....again.

2nd Ralf had many a chance to take his brother but just didn't have the guts. I thought he was there to win the world champinship not help his brother to win it.

[Inigo Montoya]

Ok, lets play this silly game from the other side. What about JPM, is he so chicken that he would not pass Button? Chicken!! <puts hands under armpits and flaps wings while making chicken sounds>

[J.McClane]

Ralf's girl, i am gussin' that you are a Ralf fan. So therefore will be defendin' Ralf no matter what he does. And you have also probably only been watchin' F1 for a year or so.
Since Senna died in 94 i have been watchin' F1....not just 1 driver, so i suppose you could say i offer a much more open ended opinion than you would. Just thought i would point that out.

[Peter Mallett]

I tend to agree that Ralf should have done better during his "in" laps but don't forget, the team had misjudged Ferrari's strategy and for a car with so much fuel the 2002 was pretty damn fast.

Saying that I don't buy the failure tag. I recall a couple of years back when big bro took Ralf into the infield so that Rubens could take the lead. Whilst that may have been salutory for Ralf I don't think his race in Canada when he put it over TGF was particularly shoddy.

He was racing for position yesterday and if that gives him the championship then well done.

If somebody finishes ahead of you in a race they've out raced you. It's a fairly simple concept don't you think?

[Ralf's Girl]

J. McClane -

The first race I can remember watching was in about 1989. Which was 13 years ago, was it not? And I've been avidly following the sport since I was 10 years old - and having today reached the grand old age of 16, I think you'll find that I have been watching F1 since before I had even heard the name Ralf Schumacher.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TeddyG




" Ralph has finally lost all credibilty with me as a racer after watching that race I realise that he is just a big ham that takes easy points I mean he didn't even once look like he might even try to overtake!!"

After last year's European Grand Prix who could blame him? Ralf is a smart kid and doesn't want to die.





"I have never seen Ralph ever make a gutsy move on anyone before and if someone could inform me if he ever has I'd like to hear about it!"

Ralph was sure after it in Oz until rubens stupid swerving eliminated one third of the field. He was all over Rubens and would have had him dead cold if not for all the swerving.

[senna12]

Well, racing for position is all well and good, but the Williams was quicker, and I think most fans thought that Ralf would have at least had a go at it. Perhaps he knew that Michael would probably have "aggressively defended" his position!

I think if Juan had been in Ralf's position at the end, he would have been much more aggressive in attempting to overtake Michael. As for passing Button, I think he just ran out of laps, I think he would have needed only 1 more to do it.

One thing we HAVE learned from this race, and that is the F2002 is very quick indeed.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by senna12
I think if Juan had been in Ralf's position at the end, he would have been much more aggressive in attempting to overtake Michael.

Yeah, and no prizes for guessing which of the two Williams drivers would end up with no points at the end of it.

[EERO]

The allegations that Ralf wasn't trying arte absurd. Everytime he would close the gap to Michael, his brother would open it on the next lap. Michael had the superior car and the advantage of being in the lead, Ralf couldn't get close enough to seal the deal. Its that simple.

Michael is the superior driver right now, but Ralf is no slouch.

Quite simply, for all his forceful driving , (which I enjoy)Montoya has hurt himself in the race to the WDC. Championships can be won on a conservative strategy. After only three races in a 17 race season, its too early to be driving hell-bent for leather.


Sure I like the style of Alesi and Gilles, but it doesn't win championships.

Montoya WILL learn to drive with his head, but for now, Ralf is the dominant force at Williams.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by EERO

Montoya has hurt himself in the race to the WDC.

he's only 2 points behind rafe and only 10 behind tgf, so i don't see this as hurting himself.

Originally posted by EERO

Ralf is the dominant force at Williams.

as for being the dominant force, jpm is obviously quicker, and prepared to have a go at tgf, which, next time will work i can promise you, rafe it seems is not prepared to try the overtake (despite the team telling him to use the boost button!) and sir frank and patrick like nothing better than a racer!

[strad]

You guys have to learn how to look out that back facing camera...Pay attention..Michael moves not Juan...
Juan looks to go around Mike on the left and Schumacher moves left to block him..
Right or wrong? You figure it out, but Michael moved left on Juan..Juan touched his rear tire and that was it...If it had been a CART front wing it probably wouldn't have come of...maybe even a Paul Tracy, Michael Andretti cut your tire move...Mikes actually lucky he didn't get a tire cut down.

[Tristan]

I think a lot of this aggro around the TGF/JPM thing originates from the poor call in Malaysia. Can of worms. However, the attitude of "oooh!! They've touched again!! Shall we blame TGF to even it up a bit?" that's being hinted at seems to me quite absurd. Malaysia was Malaysia. That can't be changed. TGF did nothing wrong on either occasion. The stewards did on one of them.

Is Ralf any slower than JPM?? At 3 races in it's hard to say. But pace means nothing. Points do. And whilst both have shown their more than capable of driving into the back of people (their fault or otherwise), points count. Even if stewards make silly decisions, points count. Whether people like it or not, the biggest challenge to TGF (albeit as I say, after only 3 races) is his bro.

Put it like this. People are trying to pin things to TGF and his bro that simply don't stick in my book. Or many other's books. In fact, I'd rather like it if people stopped "sticking".

And this is coming from an ardent JPM fan.

[Sato san]

And Michael braked after they touched , so how could juan have missed his braking like they said he did ..if TGCF was still flat out , then he must have moved over onto juan...only slightly i admit , but that caused the contact that happened.