Engine checks

[Flavio Galtieri]

Out of interest, were any FF1600 Kent engines subjected to eligibility checks this year?

I ask because having competed previously in 750MC Formula Vee we became used to having to dismantle the engine in parc ferme at least once a year, with the winner's engine often the subject of intense scrutiny.

I was always in favour of this, even though it irritated at the time when you just want to head home, just because it put everyone's mind to rest.

I didn't see any checks this year and wondered if perhaps I'd missed something.

[youngoldy]

Quite a few engines were sealed this year. One of our engines were sealed along with 3 others from the north west (that I am aware of) and I know two Irish engines, unusually but clearly stated in the ford tech regs, with the bellhousing sealed to the engine.

Scruty checks on the friday evening at the WHT and (from what I heared, not saw) there were carburetter's being taken apart.

Starter motor and reverse gear checks were also done on the sunday morning. I think it is good that this type of checks were done, the ones who are racing to the book have nothing to hide.

I didn't hear much being done at the Festival however.

[GlenF]

I was at the checks after the WHT and the carbs were removed and inlet maniflod internals checked. Thickness of the black rubbery gasket also checked.

[dhart]

I didn't hear much being done at the Festival however.[/QUOTE]

First 3 at the festival final were all sealed and at the bellhousing, hence the results still being provisional, Scott Malverns and Nevile Smyths are both on their way to Bold for inspection, assume that Rorys is on its way to Scholar, BRSCC should know the outcome soon.

[kartingdad]

What is the significance of a reverse gear check?

Is it just to make sure you have one fitted for drag?

[dhart]

Originally Posted by kartingdad

What is the significance of a reverse gear check?

Is it just to make sure you have one fitted for drag?

& to make sure you only have 4 forward gears!

[JohnMiller]

Don't give him ideas Dave!

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by kartingdad

What is the significance of a reverse gear check?

Is it just to make sure you have one fitted for drag?

I think you simply have to prove that you have an operative reverse gear. I have a JP box with the manual (cable pull) reverse gear modification and have had to prove that it works many many times. Infact - thats the only time I ever use it!

[Flavio Galtieri]

Thanks. That answers my question.

As I suspected, I missed it.....

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

I think you simply have to prove that you have an operative reverse gear. I have a JP box with the manual (cable pull) reverse gear modification and have had to prove that it works many many times. Infact - thats the only time I ever use it!

That's the only time you want to try and use it

[CDR]

Full story on www.ff1600.ie

[CDR]

This press release can be viewed on the BRSCC home page www.brscc.co.uk

[sammyc]

Not sure I believe the bit about the engine not been used during the season for the national championship. From what I here and seen had alot of trouble with missed gears during testing which leads to engine changes. I think it is good karma he got caught cheating. Both him and team deserve it for stealing national championship from Rory Butcher. I was at race that weekend and it was crazy the decision made by motorsport Ireland. Scott had Rory pushed tight to grass and interlocked wheels with only two choices brake and let scott drive over his front wheel or hold station and take corner. Scott had all the room and new he had no chance to pass on outside as it always ends in contact at that corner. Have watched racing for years and it is always the same at the second corner in mondello and Scott knew this as he had raced here before. Also would like to point out that mechanical failure cost scott the championship he failed to finish race when car broke down.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by sammyc

Not sure I believe the bit about the engine not been used during the season for the national championship. From what I here and seen had alot of trouble with missed gears during testing which leads to engine changes. I think it is good karma he got caught cheating. Both him and team deserve it for stealing national championship from Rory Butcher. I was at race that weekend and it was crazy the decision made by motorsport Ireland. Scott had Rory pushed tight to grass and interlocked wheels with only two choices brake and let scott drive over his front wheel or hold station and take corner. Scott had all the room and new he had no chance to pass on outside as it always ends in contact at that corner. Have watched racing for years and it is always the same at the second corner in mondello and Scott knew this as he had raced here before. Also would like to point out that mechanical failure cost scott the championship he failed to finish race when car broke down.

The decision made by Motorsport Ireland was made on very clear CCTV evidence from Mondello's own cameras which clearly shows that it aws Rory that all the room not Scott. It also clearly shows that Scott was leading. Thats why Rory was excluded by the COC....and he had committed an almost identical offence at the previous round at Brands for which he was endorsed, fined and reprimanded. You cannot win a championship by removing your only rival from the track on two consecutive race meetings.

As you are such an expert you will also know that Scott wasn't in the same car at the Festival. He only got the money together at the last minute and that is why Cliff Dempsey hired Noel Carey's car for him. The engine came with the car but due to a problem with the carb it was swapped out for one from Stephen Patton from a back up engine. The carb was checked during the event and passed. Exactly the same car, engine and carb were then used at the Walter Hayes 2 weeks later by Patrick McKenna. Do you think he was cheating as well? Did he have any performance advantage???

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by sammyc

Not sure I believe the bit about the engine not been used during the season for the national championship. From what I here and seen had alot of trouble with missed gears during testing which leads to engine changes. I think it is good karma he got caught cheating. Both him and team deserve it for stealing national championship from Rory Butcher. I was at race that weekend and it was crazy the decision made by motorsport Ireland. Scott had Rory pushed tight to grass and interlocked wheels with only two choices brake and let scott drive over his front wheel or hold station and take corner. Scott had all the room and new he had no chance to pass on outside as it always ends in contact at that corner. Have watched racing for years and it is always the same at the second corner in mondello and Scott knew this as he had raced here before. Also would like to point out that mechanical failure cost scott the championship he failed to finish race when car broke down.

Funny that your post as a very similar theme to one posted earlier and now removed by the moderator from another rookie who only posted for the first time today!

I have known Scott Malvern for the whole of his motorsport career; more than 10 years and the one thing he most definitely is not is a CHEAT! Neither for that matter is Cliff Dempsey Racing. This is a mistake, an oversight even perhaps a minor negligence brought about by circumstances but the one thing it most certainly is not is deliberate cheating. Scott rented the car from the team so he put his faith in them. Similarly the team put their faith in the engine and carb supplier which was because this was a replacement carb was from a different supplier to the engine. This is just a most unfortunate set of circumstances but nothing more than that!

If Scott was a well healed young driver like many (but not all) of his peers he wouldn't have been put in this compromising position as he would have been able to use the same car that he had used all season. But he struggled to find the money and it was a very last minute arrangement.Cliff Dempsey to his credit worked very hard to give him the very best car he could such is his regard for Scott.

Scott is a very talented and, those who know him will agree also a very likeable young man. Unfortunately what he also is, is someone who continuously struggles for funding and has done throughout his career but he and his family through sheer hard work and dedication and sacrifice manage to go racing and I'm very glad that he does.

He definitely does not deserve to be ostracised over this and he has already been punished enough for an event he had no control or influence over.

[sammyc]

I just gave an opinion am not looking to blacken anyones character. I think both Scott and Rory are good drivers and both deserved to win the championship. It was my opinion from what seen and heard that day, that at most it was a racing incident that is it. It was not a good way to end championship for either driver or sport again just my opinion which I know you wont like but is all I am going to post about it. I would just like to point out that I know both car and engine were not ones he ran all year but as you have now informed me that it was off team spare engine the faulty part came from. I just find it hard to believe that at some point the spare engine was not needed. And I know if or when it was ran it was put in and run in good faith but at end of day in this sport at club level it is driver who ends carrying blame for mistakes made by others. I know this does not reflect on Scott as person but unfortunately it was him that got excluded or that is what results show. Again not interested in stirring **** just gave my opinion as ff1600 fan. I want to be able to watch close ff1600 racing for next many years which is why I go in first place.

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by sammyc

I just gave an opinion am not looking to blacken anyones character. I think both Scott and Rory are good drivers and both deserved to win the championship. It was my opinion from what seen and heard that day, that at most it was a racing incident that is it. It was not a good way to end championship for either driver or sport again just my opinion which I know you wont like but is all I am going to post about it. I would just like to point out that I know both car and engine were not ones he ran all year but as you have now informed me that it was off team spare engine the faulty part came from. I just find it hard to believe that at some point the spare engine was not needed. And I know if or when it was ran it was put in and run in good faith but at end of day in this sport at club level it is driver who ends carrying blame for mistakes made by others. I know this does not reflect on Scott as person but unfortunately it was him that got excluded or that is what results show. Again not interested in stirring **** just gave my opinion as ff1600 fan. I want to be able to watch close ff1600 racing for next many years which is why I go in first place.

Well Sammy C if you were at Mondello that weekend you will have seen that Scott comfortably beat Rory in Race one on Saturday. You will also know and its NOT just my opinion that Rory has had by far the best engine in the class all year. This probably isn't the appropriate thread to discuss this & there is another one on here that does. But a lot of people including one or two journalists have tried to instigate a war between Scott and Rory which isn't appropriate. They were track rivals; nothing more. In fact Scott, in his 1st year of car racing remember, was very pleased to have someone of Rory's calibre to compete against and would much rather have lost the championship "fairly" on the track than had to battle for it in a court room. But the fact of the matter is that Rory did twice drive into Scott; both times when Scott held the lead. And in that 2nd race at Mondello Scott's subsequent retirement was caused as a direct result of the damage sustained when Rory drove into him and the evidence was produced to prove it.

Whether either incident was an intentional act by Rory only he truly knows. I actually prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. But in both cases it was bad driving and that's why for both incidents he was punished.

When Rory won the Festival I was one of the first people to shake hands with him as both I and Scott have done many times this year. We wish him no malice and as I said after the hearing concluded "I hope both drivers can now put this behind them and get on with their promising careers"...I'd like to think this will be an end now to all the sniping and derogatory remarks but I guess that's hoping for a bit too much!

DM

[CDR]

With regard to the championship Rory had taken Scott off at the race previous and got punished for it, are you telling me that a driver any driver should be able to keep taking his rival off all the time and go on and win a championship ?? With regard to that spare engine it had a full rebuild including a block and was only ever used for testing as it was giving alot of problems ! So no it was never raced but it was given back by the engine builder before the Festival saying it was perfect to use now !!

[JagtechOhio]

I heard a guy once asked driftwood what he thought about engine checks. His reply:

"Fine by me, so long as they clear the bank".

[FFfan]

Press Release – Saturday, 28th November2009


From Scott Malvern
Regarding 2009 FF1600 Formula Ford Festival

I am naturally very disappointed to have my 2nd place taken away from me in the Kent Formula Ford Festival Final but I am in complete agreement with the reason for it happening.

The carburettor on the Ray GR06 car that I was driving developed a fault and needed to be replaced. It was replaced by the Team for a carburettor from a spare engine that had recently been rebuilt. At no previous time during 2009 have I used that spare engine or carburettor. Everyone knows that I only put a deal together at the last minute for the Festival and because of that I was in an unfamiliar car hired for me by Cliff Dempsey. The carburettor was actually tested for legality at the event and passed.

After the Festival Final the engine and carburettor was sealed and the same car, engine and carburettor was used two weeks later at the Sir Walter Hayes Trophy by Patrick McKenna.

Both the team, Cliff Dempsey Racing and the supplier of the carburettor Stephen Patton have apologised to me unreservedly, and without prejudice, over this regrettable incident. They have both assured me that this was a genuine mistake. I am satisfied with their explanations and now want that to be an end to the matter. Engine supplier Neil Bold is blameless in this issue.

I don’t want this one unfortunate incident to tarnish what has been a brilliant effort by all concerned for my first season in car racing. I now just wish to focus on 2010 and securing a drive in Duratec Formula Ford and further prove my ability in the MSA British Championship.

END

[Flavio Galtieri]

When Kris Meeke won the Scottish Rally a few days ago having already stitched up the IRC Championship at the previous round his car subsequently failed post event scrutineering with an issue with the subframe.

Although he was rightly removed from the results, I have yet to hear of any accusations that Kris Meeke is a cheat or an unworthy champion.

In my opinion the lessons to be learned from the discussions of the last day are that:

1) Genuine mistakes can happen in all Formulae and at all levels.

2) Formula Ford Kent engines are now so antiquated and good parts so difficult to obtain (even through a "top engine builder") that ensuring performance equality is nigh on impossible. The only way would be by increasing random checks throughout the season which I doubt would be feasible financially for the club. Even then the sparsity of AX blocks and top quality components means there will always be some engines more powerful than others but built to the same rules.

If there is a need for a junior FF series feeding to the MSA championship with modern ecu controlled engines, as opposed to enthusiasts racing Kents, then the sooner it is announced the better.

[sammyc]

Thanks for the update on engine. As I said in begining I would have been surprized if a team had not used its spare engine during year but as you explained you had only recived it back from full rebuild and are at mercy of engine builders. Mistakes do happen. I agree to that Rory Butcher has a strong engine but this is always been the way in formula ford some engines are better then others.There is always engines out there that are better than others, ed moore, gavin wills all the top drivers in formula ford have had them and all have been sealed and passed through their dominent seasons.Is there any word on the other two engines that were sealed that weekend. Was good to see engines sealed as it used to be standard that top three in festival were sealed back in it day.

With regard national championship I think two boys had great year racing very close all year with very little seperating them. I think when you have two drivers this close there is always going to be incidents. It has been like this for years, the fifth place battle in the festival final is good example of this. I dont think there was any intentional incidents between the two from knockhill on it was just close racing and a tight fight for a championship that both deserved. If the racing was not this tight it would not be formula ford.

[Asp]

OK guys, some have you have rightly spotted that previous threads on this topic have been removed. I think that everyone in this thread has now clarified any previous comments - so hopefully everyone's now happy with each other. I'm also sure that this topic needs to be discussed.

But, it's worth a very timely reminder:

• Do not threaten other users. If you have a problem with a post, click "report bad post" then we can look at it.
• If you disagree with something, don't get into a silly argument online with them. You will disagree with things - it's a discussion forum, but take your time to think up a reasoned response.
• Don't spread wild accusations about the place. Give your opinion by all means - but don't set it out as fact unless it is.

Other than that, please carry on if you want to

[CDR]

I think all that needed to be said has been said and it is time to move on !!

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by CDR

I think all that needed to be said has been said and it is time to move on !!

Here here!