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Old 30 Aug 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2531143)   #1
TheMong
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Renault Dismiss Flav and Pat or Oh dear… Here comes trouble

there always something...


http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/...comes-trouble/
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:10 (Ref:2531151)   #2
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I wondered when someone was going to pick up on this.

Potentially it's a huge story and when it comes, albeit second-hand, from someone as reputable as Joe Saward you can't ignore it.

I remember there were mutterings at the time that Piquet's crash was mighty convenient for Alonso and Bononi recently hinted somewhere that major revelations were soon to come out of Brazil. Presumably this is what he meant.

Personally I hope the story is found to be untrue.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:13 (Ref:2531152)   #3
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
FIA monitor all the radio transmissions so surely there is no way they could have pulled it off without the FIA knowing. Also the circumstances were so flukey that i doubt it could have been pre-planned.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:18 (Ref:2531154)   #4
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:20 (Ref:2531155)   #5
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FIA monitor all the radio transmissions so surely there is no way they could have pulled it off without the FIA knowing. Also the circumstances were so flukey that i doubt it could have been pre-planned.
The radio traffic has only been open this year. So it's quite possible that this is true. I don't think the FIA would investigate it if the evidence wasn't significant
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:26 (Ref:2531160)   #6
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Surely this can't be true... I really hope this is just a few slight irregularities prompting an investigation rather than a deliberate attempt to decieve by Renault. Because if this is true... surely that counts as race fixing? I'm struggling to think of anything more likely to get you fined millions of pounds and thrown out of a championship.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:26 (Ref:2531161)   #7
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Watch them strip Hamilton's title....based on the fact that Massa "would've" won for sure.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:27 (Ref:2531162)   #8
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Can open, worms everywhere!

There might not be any radio traffic telling Piquet to spin, it could of been decided verbally before the start of the race.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:29 (Ref:2531166)   #9
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I remember that one very clearly. Was a possibility I considered when seeing the crash.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:30 (Ref:2531170)   #10
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I'm struggling to think of anything more likely to get you fined millions of pounds and thrown out of a championship.
You could pinch someone elses data for a start. I believe it's been done before.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:31 (Ref:2531172)   #11
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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The radio traffic has only been open this year. So it's quite possible that this is true. I don't think the FIA would investigate it if the evidence wasn't significant
But still could they have predicted Ferrari's massive brain fade in the pits, without which Massa would have won regardless.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:32 (Ref:2531174)   #12
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They could have told him to crash, but given his record in F1 he probably wouldn't have had the ability to crash on purpose. Seems like a parting shot from him, as it is the only thing he may be remembered for.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:33 (Ref:2531176)   #13
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But still could they have predicted Ferrari's massive brain fade in the pits, without which Massa would have won regardless.
Ah yes but maybe Alonso could've got second? Second would have been less conspicuous than first! So it would still be a possibility...

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You could pinch someone elses data for a start. I believe it's been done before.
Hehe true! Although this would be even worse I think!! *shock*
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:34 (Ref:2531177)   #14
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I really don't doubt that this sort of skullduggery goes on. Whether it's true in this case we can only wait and see.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:37 (Ref:2531179)   #15
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fourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I don't want to jump on a conspiracy theory but I can't help feeling that this might explain just why Flav put up with the little squirt for so long
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:41 (Ref:2531183)   #16
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I don't want to jump on a conspiracy theory but I can't help feeling that this might explain just why Flav put up with the little squirt for so long
It may also explain why the normally fiery Briatore has been so far reluctant to respond to Piquet's public criticisms.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 16:45 (Ref:2531192)   #17
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But still could they have predicted Ferrari's massive brain fade in the pits, without which Massa would have won regardless.
Would he? Lewis was behind him on the road and got 3rd. I think Alonso would've won anyway - he was the pace-setter all weekend and he was in the lead from that

I don't know what the FIA can do here, though. They may ban Renault from some races this season but regarding last year, I don't know what they can do. Tyrrell were disqualified retrospectively in 84 but they had an illegal car. Maybe Alonso will be kicked out of the race with Rosberg taking the win, or maybe they'll lose their prize money or something like that
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 17:23 (Ref:2531230)   #18
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I think the FIA will force Renault to drop Piquet.

Oh, hang on, they've done that already.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 17:30 (Ref:2531239)   #19
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I don't know what they can do. Tyrrell were disqualified retrospectively in 84 but they had an illegal car.
Tyrrell were actually racing under appeal having been found to be cheating in Detroit, allegedly. They then were banned retrospectively. To be fair in hindsight it was the turbo teams and the FIA getting back at Uncle Ken.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 17:34 (Ref:2531242)   #20
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 17:36 (Ref:2531245)   #21
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This is exactly what you get with the artificial 'spice ups' of the racing. They create a loophole, or (if untrue) this kind of conspiracies.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 17:42 (Ref:2531250)   #22
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The question is getting the evidence, of course they could always do a Nixon and "accidentally" wipe the tapes.

EDIT : The SC is not simply a spiceup (it can be used as a spiceup if it is over-used, but IIRC that incident was more than one that could be sensibly mopped up under local yellows - that's why they deployed it). The only real alternative is a red flag. Super Local Yellows or whatever wouldn't work as they don't bunch the cars up for picking up debris.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 18:11 (Ref:2531273)   #23
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Right, well...

As a cynic, I remember thinking this could have been the case when I saw it. Alonso was on an odd strategy which only had a chance if their was an early safety car, and low and behold he got one.

It's not likely to have been implemented on the radio at least in any decipherable way, it won't be written down and signed between Flavio & Nelson - it'd have been agreed verbally only.

It's no surprise that Nelson Piquet's only just been let go by the team that this has surfaced.

In essence though - it's reasonably provable. The FIA will dig out the data recorder and try and work out if Nelson made a ridiculous move that plonked him into the wall. It will be very difficult to determine if this was a true move or general driver error - it's not as though Piquet is Michael Schumacher (Monaco 2006).

IF found guilty I doubt they'd re-order last year's championship - it's too late now, and worthless an action.

It's almost not worth excluding them from this year's championship either, as they're so far down and if Force India hold up this performance they're going to end up second to last ahead of Toro Rosso anyway.

I'd expect a massive fine - and I suppose an exclusion will accompany it regardless.

If found not guilty, and Piquet (if the whistleblower) is found to be just mouthing off - he'll probably lose his superlicence.

They may disqualify Renault from this year's -
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 18:11 (Ref:2531274)   #24
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I remember there were mutterings at the time that Piquet's crash was mighty convenient for Alonso and Bononi recently hinted somewhere that major revelations were soon to come out of Brazil. Presumably this is what he meant.
Yeah, that's it... The TV commentators were all over it, mentioning that Piquet Snr has strangely decided to be at the races this year while he kept saying to them privately that he hated to be there - but - there was "something" going on... They also noted that Piquet was watching the TV and should respond against to the claims of Nelsinho being instructed to "crash" in a premeditated action to give Alonso he chance to win, but he didn't send any reply.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 18:14 (Ref:2531277)   #25
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Flav? Squirt? Ask Naomi. Piquet...called Team tactics and it worked...
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