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23 Jun 2014, 23:55 (Ref:3425652) | #1151 | |
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Audi and porsche not protesting the wing is basically saying touche...
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24 Jun 2014, 01:01 (Ref:3425674) | #1152 | |
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I would assume Audi and Porsche sat back and waited to see what ACO would do (as with Toyota's ludicrous "Wheel-arch extensions" which somehow functioned as wing extenders) and since ACO is silent, both firms are busy designing their own versions.
The morality here is complicated; I will not condemn or accept anyone's view to the exclusion of others because all sides seem to have rational points. I will say that ultimately what is allowed is allowed, right or wrong, and the flex-wing seems to be allowed. I am wondering if this will be even more important at high-downforce tracks because the relative speed gain compared to a high-downforce wing would be much greater, and a couple seconds on the straight could be a big deal. if so I am pretty sure both Porsche and Audi will have something similar at Silverstone--but Silverstone is not a particularly slow track so maybe the flex-wing won't be top priority. |
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24 Jun 2014, 05:42 (Ref:3425724) | #1153 | |
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Silverstone... 2015? Because that was the opening round. Did you mean Austin? I think the wing was already on the car all year. But a new version was tested post Spa.
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24 Jun 2014, 06:27 (Ref:3425734) | #1154 | ||
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This is an interesting article- http://motoring.com.au/news/2014/car...s-toyota-44232 Rob Luepen had some words to say about Audi saying things are unequal...
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24 Jun 2014, 07:03 (Ref:3425744) | #1155 | ||||
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Last edited by MyNameIsNigel; 24 Jun 2014 at 07:08. |
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24 Jun 2014, 08:41 (Ref:3425778) | #1156 | |||
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And before the inevitable "blah blah Audi diesel blah blah Darth Ullrich," (which isn't my point but what better way to obfuscate the issue than changing the subject) I don't remember Audi telling anyone to "shut up". May I suggest Leupen takes his own advice. |
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24 Jun 2014, 08:52 (Ref:3425787) | #1157 | ||
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Lack of class from Leupen there.
Toyota really seem to be hurting from this year's Le Mans. They're acting like a cornered cat. |
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24 Jun 2014, 08:55 (Ref:3425788) | #1158 | ||
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Quote:
Last edited by TF110; 24 Jun 2014 at 09:04. |
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24 Jun 2014, 08:58 (Ref:3425792) | #1159 | |
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The context does not change his wording
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24 Jun 2014, 09:08 (Ref:3425801) | #1160 | |
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24 Jun 2014, 09:48 (Ref:3425813) | #1161 | ||
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It changes the inherent 'force' behind the words though.
It's going to get annoying very quickly btw (in fact it probably already has) if everytime Toyota say something people disagree with this whole non-issue of a flex wing is bought up. If they're allowed to run it that should be the end. It shouldn't be a bargaining tool or any BS like that. And this is from a Porsche fan. Toyota should still be able to say what they feel, even if in the case the words are a bit strong. |
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24 Jun 2014, 11:58 (Ref:3425869) | #1162 | ||
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I am not entirely sure that the "Toyota rear-wing controversy", "Winggate", or whichever designation one way want to use, is a non-issue. It will, one way or another, lead to some clarifications and/or rule changes. Time will tell.
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24 Jun 2014, 13:04 (Ref:3425904) | #1163 | ||
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Well, if Toyota are gonna tell Audi to get a better hybrid system, I'd suggest to Toyota to get a better engine instead of the old, outdated lump they have. The fact that they rely so much on the hybrid system and "trick" aero IMO shows that Toyota should've forked out the money for drivetrain/engine development (hell, looking at it, I'd ban the Toyota rotating wing on safety grounds, let alone movable aero).
Just like at LM2013, Toyota seem to be lobbying for more help from the ACO. I believe based on the first rounds and LM this year, they've had all the help that they need. But by the same token, I'd agree that Audi haven't been in any way severely disadvantaged by the current regs, either. After all, it wasn't like Toyota in terms of laptime or long run performance was walking away from Audi at LM (much of the gap between the #7 and #2 was due to pace car stuff), and it was the winning Audi that had fastest race lap and fastest long run stint. Audi and Toyota are engaged in the typical lobbying that has resulted from the ACO adopting the ALMS' 2006 BOP crap. |
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24 Jun 2014, 18:01 (Ref:3425996) | #1164 | ||
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24 Jun 2014, 18:14 (Ref:3426001) | #1165 | ||
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Okay, time to discuss something constructively...
The predictions were for the petrol cars to get 13.9 laps out of a tank. The 919s managed 14 (thought not all the time) while the TS040s stuck to 13. We never did see the ultimate pace of the Toyota, but is it correct to assume that TMG felt the speed was worth it over the extra lap? The Porsches were never running completely healthy either, but in the 14 lap stints sub 3:30 laps were rare. Last edited by J Jay; 24 Jun 2014 at 18:20. |
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24 Jun 2014, 19:31 (Ref:3426019) | #1166 | |
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All the latest engine technology is here to make engine efficient under wider range of rpm and load. Toyota's vision of a hybrid is and always was to use simple engine in the sweet spot, if the demand for power is lower use the electric buffer.
In a race you basically need efficient WOT in high rpm, how hard is it to tune the NA port injected engine this way? What benefit would turbo bring other than more power? How do you avoid waste gate inefficiency? With MGU-H and less fuel in higher ERS class? The great efficiency benefit of direct injection is lean burn under light load, when does that happen in a race? Direct injection can also produce more power, but with sacrificing efficiency (richer than stoich). These are just a few points that I come with reading wikipedia, so may someone prove me wrong. |
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24 Jun 2014, 21:16 (Ref:3426048) | #1167 | |
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The turbo brings lower RPM power, which means you race the engine at lower RPM, which helps with internal friction, which brings overall efficiency up quite significantly. Everyone loves how a V8 NA sounds, but those will be things of the past very soon (if we continue to have fuel limitations).
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24 Jun 2014, 21:30 (Ref:3426056) | #1168 | |
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Their V8 is not as high revving this year as '12-13. They revved to 10k at least. This year its between 8-9k. If you can have a 40% efficient engine while still being V8 and high revving, why go the smaller turbo route thats more complex and probably heavier? This was talked about earlier in the thread with the super high compression ratio of 17:1.
Theres rumors of Porsche looking to do 8mj next year, and I bet Toyota are looking to do the same. |
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24 Jun 2014, 22:10 (Ref:3426061) | #1169 | ||
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25 Jun 2014, 00:07 (Ref:3426094) | #1170 | |
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Watch what will happen in the next few years. This is year one and everyone brought what they believed in. As the years go by and IF efficiency is still mandated, you will see how everyone will move towards 0,5L per cylinder turbocharged petrol, low revving engines, with the V6 being the best compromise.
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25 Jun 2014, 05:29 (Ref:3426153) | #1171 | ||
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25 Jun 2014, 07:05 (Ref:3426177) | #1172 | ||
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Some words from DSC about the "Wing Gate"
More seriously, it is apparently confirmed that the electrical fire that finished the race of the #7 car originated around the connectors for the FIA data logger (confirmed by a Toyota Racing source according to DSC). The team is understood to bear the responsibility for ensuring that the installation of the data logger was secure and safe. This is consistent with Vasselon's comments in the AutoHebdo magazine. No FIA conspiracy then |
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25 Jun 2014, 07:29 (Ref:3426188) | #1173 | |||
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Quote:
John Litjens mentioned during the Eurosport Germany LM broadcast that they are already working on the new car and one of their main focus is looking for a further weight reduction which should allow them to race in the 8MJ category. Toyota Japan is also looking if they can use a combination of supercapacitors and batteries. |
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25 Jun 2014, 08:06 (Ref:3426209) | #1174 | ||
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25 Jun 2014, 10:50 (Ref:3426258) | #1175 | |
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