Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[F50GTPlus]

Someone actually raised an interesting question on Facebook will the driver need to relearn how to drive this type of vehicle as compared to a high downforce prototype or open wheeler

[skycafe]

speaking of which, have any drivers been named?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Don't know if this has been posted here already but this the first I am seeing of the Delta Wing's tires:

http://www.highcroftracing.com/galle...ltawing-tires/

Bib's smallest fat roll is thicker one of those!



EDIT-

Article to accompany that answered my question:
http://www.highcroftracing.com/news/...es-arrive.html

Those tires are great, they look like something off of an old 1950's Formula 1 car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I just can't see that tire generating enough grip to turn...Will the front have any down force?

It has two tires at the front, very close together, so I would have thought through the computer modelling the combined grip and downforce would be sufficient.

[WolfsburgRS]

Just out of curiosity, who is funding this whole experiment? Panoz, Highcroft, AAR, or a combo of the three?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Just out of curiosity, who is funding this whole experiment? Panoz, Highcroft, AAR, or a combo of the three?

Highcroft pulled its HPD last year due to lack of funds, so I suspect nothing is coming from Duncan Dayton's pocket. I'd think it's Panoz + AAR with Panoz providing the bulk of the funding.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It has two tires at the front, very close together, so I would have thought through the computer modelling the combined grip and downforce would be sufficient.

I want to understand the logic here because if it works that's awesome. However, A.) all cars have two (larger) wheels up front, and B.) do the tires being close together provide greater turning ability? I've always thought that the wider the wheel base the greater the car can suppress body roll. If this thing lifts one of the tires under hard cornering, there isn't a lot left in contact with the track.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Highcroft pulled its HPD last year due to lack of funds, so I suspect nothing is coming from Duncan Dayton's pocket. I'd think it's Panoz + AAR with Panoz providing the bulk of the funding.

The lack of funding thing seems a little suspect, I kind of went with the conspiracy theory that relations between Highcroft and HPD soured when Highcroft were trying to get the gig to run the R15's last year...

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I want to understand the logic here because if it works that's awesome. However, A.) all cars have two (larger) wheels up front, and B.) do the tires being close together provide greater turning ability? I've always thought that the wider the wheel base the greater the car can suppress body roll. If this thing lifts one of the tires under hard cornering, there isn't a lot left in contact with the track.

I won't pretend to understand the physics, but I will pretend I can guess why it works.


The DeltaWing is a much lighter vehicle than a 900kg prototype. So in theory, you won't need as much grip to get the car to begin turning. Michelin knows rubber, and they know how to build rubber that allows a car to turn. The designer of the Dw is an experienced racer(not a driver per se but involved in racing) He should be amply capable of punching numbers into a calculator and determining how big a tire needs to be to exact X amount of turning force. This all sounds well and good, but I could say the exact same thing about the AMR1. So it probably will at least be fairly fast...but whether it can approach the limits a current proto does remains to be seen.
Will it turn? Yes. Will it be competitive? Dunno.

dh

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by F50GTPlus

Someone actually raised an interesting question on Facebook will the driver need to relearn how to drive this type of vehicle as compared to a high downforce prototype or open wheeler

Do DTM drivers have to 're-learn' how to drive a prototype or F1? (front engine vs rear ) Does a rallye driver have to re-learn driving on asphalt after a career mostly on dirt?

did Marco Andretti have to re-learn his driving when he jumped into a low downforce high torque DP for the first time in the darkness at the Rolex this year?

The answer to all is yes. But the amount of re-education does not seem to be that great. DTM and Rallye drivers compete at Le Mans. Marco jumped into a type of car he had never even sat in before and managed to post times close to his team's optimums in a fairly short order.

A car is a car. Skilled pilots seem to be able to move from format to format without suffering a huge penalty. Imagine how the first turbo drivers felt, they had to learn to press the throttle well before any previous experience would tell them it's time to mash the pedal. It probably caused some discomfort at first...but most elite drivers appear to be quite capable of learning the individual quirks of any car. I would hazard a guess that it may take longer to suss out a cutting edge setup than the time a driver takes to learn the feel of the car.

[skycafe]

How would AAR be putting any money into this project, isn't their only source of income the Alligators, which I don't think are generating the amount needed to fund an LMP?

While I do understand that experienced drivers can cope, this thing seems like it will have a different feel then most anything else the driver may have experienced. I believe it will work, in the sense that it will work, at least much better then a total failure, but I don't believe it is the way forward (gawd, I hope not, I don't want more of these) because it really is more a freak and really offers nothing to advance race or road car tech, that could not have been done in a more conventional format.

I still believe the biggest odd factor here will be braking, it seems like it will need a huge bias to the rear.

[KA]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

The designer of the Dw is an experienced racer(not a driver per se but involved in racing) He should be amply capable of punching numbers into a calculator and determining how big a tire needs to be to exact X amount of turning force.

dh

Ben Bowlby basically started out by designing, building and racing his own car when he was a student, so as you say, he's got a fair amount of race experience as a driver, albeit at club level...
http://www.simongreenmotorsport.com/...wsdetail&id=57

I still can't get my head around what they're trying to achieve with the DeltaWing- Sure, Bowlby knows his way around designing a car, but it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a race car designer get an idea in their head and run with it in the face of all the evidence that it's a bad one...

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by KA

I still can't get my head around what they're trying to achieve with the DeltaWing- Sure, Bowlby knows his way around designing a car, but it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a race car designer get an idea in their head and run with it in the face of all the evidence that it's a bad one...

Right you are. We need no further evidence than the Chaparral 2H.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

Right you are. We need no further evidence than the Chaparral 2H.

Having not heard the engine for the Wing yet, I can just about guarantee which one will sound better.

(YouTube video from link in above post):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM56w...layer_embedded

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by KA

Ben Bowlby basically started out by designing, building and racing his own car when he was a student, so as you say, he's got a fair amount of race experience as a driver, albeit at club level...
http://www.simongreenmotorsport.com/...wsdetail&id=57

I still can't get my head around what they're trying to achieve with the DeltaWing- Sure, Bowlby knows his way around designing a car, but it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a race car designer get an idea in their head and run with it in the face of all the evidence that it's a bad one...

We don't know it's a bad one yet, if it is that'll be born out when they actually race it.

When the D-Wing was originally proposed as an IndyCar alternative, Bowlby was looking at a different aero concept from the traditional open wheel package of front and rear wings and incorporating a smaller capacity engine. So what they're trying to achieve is a viable alternative to the current model.

When it was rejected by IndyCar, they took a second bite of the cherry and the ACO accepted it.

Personally I had mixed feelings about the D-Wing but now it's been entered in Le Mans, let's give them a chance and see what they can achieve.

[skycafe]

in answer to my driver question, Marino Franchitti named on Highcroft's Facebook page as having signed to drive.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by skycafe

in answer to my driver question, Marino Franchitti named on Highcroft's Facebook page as having signed to drive.

Well yes - he's the listed driver on the ACO's list published yesterday.

[joeb]

Marino had a funny quote on the press release too:

I’m looking forward to being that guy who can say – yes, I turned the wheel and round the corner it went

[Simmi]

Do the 56th entries have to name three drivers too? Or could they go 2 or 4 seen as it's outside the regs?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

We don't know it's a bad one yet, if it is that'll be born out when they actually race it.

Personally I had mixed feelings about the D-Wing but now it's been entered in Le Mans, let's give them a chance and see what they can achieve.

Agreed!!!!

I confess, I'm rather looking forward to seeing it, regardless of what it does, or doesn't, achieve.

[Félix]

I too am looking forward to seeing what it can do on track. And I'd like to point out that it's much better looking than the yet-to-be-built electric Courage or the ginourmous Green GT... even though it looks like a kcid.

Here's a pic of the Green GT. Its dimensions are 1.2 meter high and over 5 meters long!!
http://images.caradisiac.com/images/...nce-252683.jpg

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Félix

Here's a pic of the Green GT. Its dimensions are 1.2 meter high and over 5 meters long!!
http://images.caradisiac.com/images/...nce-252683.jpg

wow, it's mother had to have rejected it.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by skycafe

wow, it's mother had to have rejected it.

As hideous as that looks, it's still better than the Wang. But, seriously, someone needs to pull the plug on the 56th garage. My goodness, will someone think of the children? What eyesores!

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by skycafe

wow, it's mother had to have rejected it.

I kind of like it... The giant intake reminds me of 70's sports racers and the huge splitter is like cars of ten years ago.

[Victor_RO]

Just had a bit of a brainwave, for people who complain about the looks of the Deltawing: yes, I'm about to commit an act of heresy by bringing F1 into the mix, but just look at the 1983 Brabham BT52. Look strictly at the body shape, compare the two and tell me there is no similarity.