Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Formula 1 is more popular than V8 Supercars in Australia now -- noting the Australian GP with a sellout status that exceeds rival ATCC street races.

Even at the Australian GP, grandstands tend to be more full for Formula One sessions than ATCC sessions, for whatever reason -- even though both categories are included in the program and therefore the race ticket.

You've put forward the same argument that F1 is more popular than Supercars in Oz before, using the same logic based off crowd at the AGP. Again this time, it doesn't fly. AGP is a one-off event, the only time to see the Fi World Championship live in Oz, Supercars is a national series with many rounds. Supercars street circuits are shorter than Albert Park, with less crowd space & could sell out but still have less crowd than the AGP. Given the marquee nature of the event, if the AGP didn't exceed crowd size at Supercars events there'd be something very wrong. "more popular" would actually be assessed across a range of measurements & right now I couldn't tell you which would come out on top - be an interesting discussion but basing a judgement on one event doesn't stack up. If you REALLY wanted to do that though, you'd compare TV audience for the AGP with TV audience for the Bathurst 1000 - on that basis, Supercars is "more popular" - very flawed reasoning.

Of course there are less in the grandstands for Supercars than F1 - F1 is the "main event", the reason for many being there, whereas Supercars is a support & like any support does not draw the same interest as the "main event". It is an important part of the program though and AGP was on record some years ago about the millions $ wise that Supercars brings to the event - which is why Supercars gets its own pit lane, so yes, smaller than F1 at the AGP (as you'd expect) but still significant.

If I was the organiser of the Adelaide 500, I would consider making the ATCC a support category and bringing in FIA WEC as the headline race with a 6 hour race. I imagine hosting fees are much more reasonable than Formula One.

They tried that - over 20 years ago. Staged the "race of a thousand years" at the Millennium (depending on how you just the actual millenium point of course). Was a pretty good event from all reports but lost something in the vicinity of $9 million back then. I very much doubt they'll be trying that again.

[S griffin]

I think V8 Supercars will be fine. The series is currently finding it's feet and the new gen cars seem to be working

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Tourer

They tried that - over 20 years ago. Staged the "race of a thousand years" at the Millennium (depending on how you just the actual millenium point of course). Was a pretty good event from all reports but lost something in the vicinity of $9 million back then. I very much doubt they'll be trying that again.

Dont forget back in the 1980's Sandown hosted the WEC a couple of times.... on the specially extended version of Sandown to give the track the FIA stipulated minimum length requirement for WEC races.... they added a Mickey Mouse section at the end of the back straight with a hairpin which did a little detour infield to rejoin the original circuit just before Dandenong Road corner. Horrible addition. That event didnt live up to expectations either. They called it the International layout! We had to live with it for years after

Edit: That International Layout:


ISTR the "race of a thousand years" ended up with Don Panoz (who acted as promoter with the SA govt), ended up taking the SA Govt, Tourism Authority and SA Motorsports Board to court, suing them for something in the $20 million range ..... they had signed a 10 year deal with Panoz to run the event annually but it did not get past a date being set for a second event. Cancelled by the Govt. Eventually settled out of court several years later.

Firmly against the event being a regular event was Cochrane who did not want to have the Adelaide 500 position weakened by an International event so close in timing to 'his' 500.

I agree with Tourer.... cant see any further bites at that cherry.

[Mixer]

Bit OT but I'm hearing solid mail of a Formula E appearance in the future, potentialy at EC and The Bend?

Just need to unlock some "environental" money?

[Langers]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

They absolutely do. It's the real world unlike CFD, the reason F1 teams have problems with correlation is because they are not allowed to use full scale models. As long as it's a full scale car and the blockage ratio is low, it's as good as the real world and far more controlled than a runway.



If this is true why does TCR and BTCC homologation use a full-scale wind tunnel?! The idea that the ATCC organisers know something that other touring car categories do not, is with all due respect, dubious.

Unless there's a supervillain who has built a secret wind tunnel inside Ayres' Rock, there is no suitable facility in Australia. So it's a pointless argument to make.

[Langers]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

No different to gen2. There were multiple changes made to those cars to distribute loads better in crashes as more data was collected.

Quite why people expect Gen3 to be a perfect car in every respect from day 1 is beyond me. I can't recall any serious racing car where that was the case.

With 2020s spec advanced FEA available, there really isn't an excuse for not getting the crash structure right.

[Langers]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Presumably the commercial guys are working overtime behind the scenes to try and rope in one or two more manufacturers?
Nissan or Toyota I guess are the most obvious targets as both have big v8 coupes they could use and are well known locally?

Toyota is a flat "no".

https://www.speedcafe.com/torquecafe...upercar-entry/

[S griffin]

I'm not surprised, the series doesn't seem to be fashionable to Toyota. I would be surprised if we bet anymore makes at this time

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I'm not surprised, the series doesn't seem to be fashionable to Toyota.

Or Nissan or BMW or Audi or KIA or Genesis... What are the organisers going to do to right the ship?

It's hard to understand why Gen 3 was not introduced with a wide variety of vehicles from the get-go, instead of building 14 Camaros.

[v8supes]

I thought these new Gen cars were good. They sounded great, didnt look dissimilar to the previous generation of supercars. Of course around Newcastle its hard to see how they will race on faster tracks but i think the potential is there. Just wish we outside of Australia could watch this weekends races from Melbourne...

[Mixer]

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/f1-stars...Lu-knsv_RAezVU

How bloody good is Tom Randle representing Castrol?

We've had Castrol in the sport for a long time without these amazing sorts of activations that seem to come from some contacts Randle has from his overseas experience.

Last year he has Alonso take him for a hot lap in his car at Albert Park, now he has had the 3 Alpine drivers drive the car around the Thunderdome.

I love to see intelligent, bright and marketable blokes who REALLY work hard on the commercial side - not just stickers on the side of a car.

Thomas is like Mr Castrol - all over their ads and podcast ads, and constantly building his own personal profile with the brand. I'd suggest he's the strongest commercial property at Tickford despite Cam Waters arguably being team leader - where are the Monster activations with big OS stars? Not like they don't have any.

Despite me being a GM guy, I will comfortably barrack for good guys like Randle or Chaz on the blue side.

[V8 Fireworks]

15mm rear suspension spacer permitted:
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/the-tech...ould-help-djr/

COG testing to be conducted:
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/gen3-sup...y-parity-test/

[v8supes]

They did it, they achieved the goal. Todays race was great, much closer, good action and parity seems to be good too.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by v8supes

They did it, they achieved the goal. Todays race was great, much closer, good action and parity seems to be good too.

First 4 cars home were Camaros and the first Ford over 14 seconds back from the winner.....in a 19 lap race. That might have some Ford people disagreeing.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by E.B

First 4 cars home were Camaros and the first Ford over 14 seconds back from the winner.....in a 19 lap race. That might have some Ford people disagreeing.

I think you need to look at this over the various tracks over the season. Not a once off race.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

I think you need to look at this over the various tracks over the season. Not a once off race.

TBH it was a bit of a tongue in cheek post on my part.... reality is im on the same page as you suggest. I must admit also my preferences these days are more team / driver related than red or blue.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

I think you need to look at this over the various tracks over the season. Not a once off race.

In any case, the organisers will be reviewing the micro-sectors. Not withstanding that adjustments were made in 2019 before the completion of the entire season.

I think it would be wise for DJR to manufacture a run of the raised rear wing mounts, just in case they are required and need to be homologated. It remains unclear why the rear wing was lowered on the S650 Gen 3 compared to the S550 Gen 3, when the two Mustangs have the same roof profile (the S650 road car is an extensive facelift, rather than a new chassis).

Hopefully the remaining Albert Park races will be more favourable for the Mustang and show that there isn't a deficiency in high-speed aerodynamics. Noting that Supercars' VCAT testing is conducted only in a straight line and does not consider yaw effects as found in actual cornering...

[kittle]

Originally Posted by E.B

TBH it was a bit of a tongue in cheek post on my part.... reality is im on the same page as you suggest. I must admit also my preferences these days are more team / driver related than red or blue.

Also you have to take into account it seems only the Chev teams used the tyre loophole...

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by E.B

First 4 cars home were Camaros and the first Ford over 14 seconds back from the winner.....in a 19 lap race. That might have some Ford people disagreeing.

Yeah but they only changed two tyres in the pit stop almost everyone else did 4. Some quirk in the rules or something.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by kittle

Also you have to take into account it seems only the Chev teams used the tyre loophole...

Good point

[V8 Fireworks]

Two fires, apparently from failure of a control Gen 3 electrical component:

The team declared the component was caused by a controlled electrical component failing.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/wau-face...r-percat-fire/

Meanwhile, for the second time in as many days, a car retreated to the pit lane with a fire from the left-front corner, this time the #5 Snowy River Caravans Mustang of Tickford Racing’s Courtney.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/01...race-5-at-agp/

[V8 Fireworks]

Motorsport.com has more on the Gen 3 fire concerns:

The second fire has now sparked tension in the paddock with concerns over driver safety.

In the wake of the fire the Tickford garage was filled with senior technical personnel from almost all rival teams, as well as the likes of Supercars Head of Motorsport Adrian Burgess and engine specialist Craig Hasted.

Members of the Technical Working Group has since met to discuss the issue.

Burgess declined to comment on the matter when approach by Motorsport.com earlier this evening.

Tickford CEO Tim Edwards did comment, although stopped short of putting a solid theory forward – except to say that it wasn't related to the oil tank or catch can, and that it did feel like it was triggered by an electrical issue.

"None whatsoever," when asked if there were any clues as to what happened.

"Plenty of theories, everybody's got theories. It's obviously the same thing that happened to Nick's car.

"We checked the catch can before the race and there was nothing in the catch can.

"I think the source of it has come from the electrical but we don't know."

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...ings/10451542/

Have components been changed compared to the "thousands of kilometres" of prototype testing?

[V8 Fireworks]

Ford teams unhappy with parity:

Team owners and/or bosses of the Blue Oval teams are believed to have met midway through Saturday at the Beaurepaires Melbourne SuperSprint, during the long gap between the day’s two qualifying sessions in the morning and Race 5 of the season in the evening.

Their concern is thought to be around straight-line speed, with the Camaro claimed to be faster once cars reach higher gears.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/02...rity-concerns/

Not a good look for the Gen 3 ATCC product!

The idea you wouldn't set the competing manufacturer as the datum and they gradually bring up the secondary, uninvolved, manufacturer to match is also bizarre...

In other news, a rolling start will be used to prevent the fires (!).
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/supercar...t-after-fires/

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford teams unhappy with parity:


https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/02...rity-concerns/

Not a good look for the Gen 3 ATCC product!

The idea you wouldn't set the competing manufacturer as the datum and they gradually bring up the secondary, uninvolved, manufacturer to match is also bizarre...

In other news, a rolling start will be used to prevent the fires (!).
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/supercar...t-after-fires/

Will he Ford teams be wasting their time even turning up for Bathurst?

[v8supes]

The cars do seem to race very well with each other though, hard to say either car has an advantage when they are fighting on track?

This line made me laugh a little. “We cannot form anything about parity based upon what we see on track with the results,”