Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 Nov 2010, 19:42 (Ref:2785965)   #51
Tim the Grey
Veteran
 
Tim the Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Wales
Across the M40 from Gaydon...
Posts: 3,834
Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!
Or they will, and he's playing mind games!

As to the 'techie' bit? I started this to provide somewhere AWAY from a massive debate elsewhere. I don;t mind is it isn't it, but as soon as facts/figures/numbers, and maths appear, I'll appeal!

Oh they already have.

WE'RE DOOMED!
Tim the Grey is offline  
__________________
Tim Yorath
Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
Quote
Old 6 Nov 2010, 22:54 (Ref:2786044)   #52
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Don't worry, I'm reffing this one closely with my red and yellow cards to hand........
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2010, 01:13 (Ref:2786087)   #53
rich07
Veteran
 
rich07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 8,611
rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!
That yellow font is blinding Ayse-I had to highlight that to know what the word was (i guessed it was yellow but anyway).
rich07 is offline  
__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2010, 05:13 (Ref:2786152)   #54
hcl123
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 889
hcl123 is heading for a stewards' enquiry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
For 2011 the hybrid rules will change slightly. See http://www.lemans.org/en/news/2011-L...TIONS_628.html for the main ideas. Only 500 kJ instead of 1000 kJ between braking points and the KERS energy can also be released on the front wheels (like the hybrid 911), but not on both axles.

I don't understand your calculation. Energy = power x time. It is up to Peugeot to decide how to release the 500 kJ of KERS energy. 500 kW (670 hp) during 1 s, 150 kW (201 hp) during 3.33 s, 50 kW (67 hp) during 10 s, 25 kW (34 hp) during 20 s, ...

To give an idea the Peugeot 908HY had a 60 kW electric motor and the Zytek Performance Hybrid system uses a 40 kW electric motor. The Porsche 911 GT3R Hybrid has 2 60 kW electric motors, which can release KERS energy "during approximately 6-8 s"; so around 1000 kJ can be stored in the flywheel battery.

As a final comparison, the hybrid Toyota Supra HV-R that won the Tokashi 24-Hour race in 2007, had 2 10 kW (in-wheel) electric motors on the front and a 150 kW rear axle mounted electric motor. That setup (which is not allowed by the ACO because it drives 3 wheels electrically) would release the 500 kJ in around 3 sec.
Very good analysis and info... it really gives a perspective... careful!

500KW in 1 second is indeed 500Kj...but for a better perspective would be to do the same but with instantaneous torque(Nm)... because electric motors are not that linear, it could be starting with equivalent of 150hp and never reach those 201hp, for those 500Kw in 4 seconds or more... and electric motors with the same energy consumption can present quite different torque(instantaneous acceleration power) figures.

And i believe La Sathre is special... too long straights, no point in starting in a fury after a chicane or curve and drop even quite before the middle... that was the point i was trying to make last time.. with info(posts erased?)... it might be that 90x is not an hybrid "per see" after all, more so because then it will have 10l more in the tank(way above 500Kj between brake points for more than 12 laps)... energy recuperation can have many uses not only momentousness "acceleration"... who knows?.. anybody?... is it 90x really an hybrid ? (photo stickers say HDi FAP[the same as before] and no "Hy ; H " anywhere)

Last edited by hcl123; 7 Nov 2010 at 05:25.
hcl123 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Nov 2010, 08:08 (Ref:2786209)   #55
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcl123 View Post

And i believe La Sathre is special... too long straights, no point in starting in a fury after a chicane or curve and drop even quite before the middle... that was the point i was trying to make last time.. with info(posts erased?)

No. Look again.....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 07:51 (Ref:2787485)   #56
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Not 100% on topic, but still worth mentioning. Peugeot has made a video about the birth of 908: http://www.peugeot-sport.com/fr/endu...la-908-hdi-fap Sadly it is only available in French, at least at the moment.

It gives a clear time line of the start of the project:
  • 23 feb 2005: choice for endurance racing
  • october 2005: first big design choices, e.g., engine architecture (5.5, V12, 100° V angle)
  • 26 feb 2006: choice for closed car -> from an aero perspective open and closed are very closed; the decisive factor was mainly strategic, because they did not want to run the same concept as Audi
  • 10 mar 2006: first monocilinder bench test
  • 18 apr 2006: first windtunnel test with scale model
  • 26 sept 2006: reveal 908 @ Paris motorshow
  • 30 sept 2006 2 AM: first start of engine -> it only ran for a short period of time (1000 revolutions)
  • 10 dec 2006 9 AM: delivery of carbon monocoque
  • 11 dec 2006: start of assembly
  • 22 dec 2006 10 PM: first engine start inside the car -> lots of smoke
  • 31 dec 2006: shakedown
  • 4 jan 2007 9:08 AM: first test session @ Castellet
  • 10 jan 2007: presentation to international press
  • 15 apr 2007: Monza 1st victory
  • 17 jun 2007: Le Mans podium finish
  • 6 apr 2008: Barcelona 1st victory against Audi
  • 15 jun 2008: Le Mans deception of losing after dominanating most of the race
  • 14 jun 2009: Le Mans victory
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 12:21 (Ref:2787551)   #57
CTD
Veteran
 
CTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Denmark
Aarhus, Jylland, Denmark
Posts: 6,654
CTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameCTD will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
If the 90X is following the same timeline then a "finished" 90X will be ready in late december / early january.
What we have seen is probably only the first shakedowns of the engine in the 90X tub.
CTD is offline  
__________________
Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan)
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 12:40 (Ref:2787558)   #58
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
I think Peugeot is much further in the development program. The shakedown was much earlier, probably not long after Le Mans. Peugeot was already testing multiple days at Monza.

I don't buy the "engine undecided" story for one minute. The engine is fixed: V8 HDI. The only decision Peugeot has to make, is whether do run KERS or not. Perhaps we will see two versions of the 90X in Sebring: 1 with KERS and 1 without. They need to determine if KERS gives a performance/fuel consumption advantage...
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 15:26 (Ref:2787610)   #59
Tim the Grey
Veteran
 
Tim the Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Wales
Across the M40 from Gaydon...
Posts: 3,834
Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!
I wonder just how much energy a KERS system can recover in the deceleration phase? I know I asked for minimal numbers, but I guess you have to have SOME calculations!

Bear in mind PSA were big users of the Valeo stop/start idea, where the flywheel was also the starter and alternator, and then add in 10 odd years of development since that concept... It could get very interesting!
Tim the Grey is offline  
__________________
Tim Yorath
Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 19:38 (Ref:2787724)   #60
Acid09
Veteran
 
Acid09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Germany
Posts: 3,795
Acid09 is going for a new lap record!Acid09 is going for a new lap record!Acid09 is going for a new lap record!Acid09 is going for a new lap record!Acid09 is going for a new lap record!Acid09 is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTD View Post
If the 90X is following the same timeline then a "finished" 90X will be ready in late december / early january.
What we have seen is probably only the first shakedowns of the engine in the 90X tub.
Given the fact that the shakedown shots date back to July, Peugeot seems to be at least 4 months ahead compared to the 908, thus I expected them to be much better sorted out during the early season than in 2007.
Acid09 is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 20:14 (Ref:2787742)   #61
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
Not 100% on topic, but still worth mentioning. Peugeot has made a video about the birth of 908: http://www.peugeot-sport.com/fr/endu...la-908-hdi-fap Sadly it is only available in French, at least at the moment.
Well, slightly off-topic it may be, but it shares the theme of the original thread - thanks very much for the link
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 9 Nov 2010, 21:55 (Ref:2787791)   #62
dxk1
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
United States
Annapolis
Posts: 2,630
dxk1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddxk1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddxk1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
Not 100% on topic, but still worth mentioning. Peugeot has made a video about the birth of 908: http://www.peugeot-sport.com/fr/endu...la-908-hdi-fap Sadly it is only available in French, at least at the moment.
Hey, nothing about the 2010 debacle!

DK
dxk1 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Nov 2010, 01:02 (Ref:2787861)   #63
hcl123
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 889
hcl123 is heading for a stewards' enquiry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim the Grey View Post
I wonder just how much energy a KERS system can recover in the deceleration phase? I know I asked for minimal numbers, but I guess you have to have SOME calculations!

Bear in mind PSA were big users of the Valeo stop/start idea, where the flywheel was also the starter and alternator, and then add in 10 odd years of development since that concept... It could get very interesting!
well not entirely on topic but i remenber posting this before from a "french" company
http://www.heat2power.net/en__introduction.php

and most of it its not about hybridization "per se"... but about efficiency and fuel consumption reduction... they even give a "benchmark" comparative of many tech available now in market

http://www.heat2power.net/en__benchmark.php

This could go very well in hand with new "principle" methods of fuel injection(supercritical or 'near-supercritical) which pug could very well develop in house... so in the end a V8 could be pushed harder, without fuel consumption skyrocket... and without performance being much different from the V12.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009...-20090804.html
hcl123 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Nov 2010, 01:06 (Ref:2787862)   #64
hcl123
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 889
hcl123 is heading for a stewards' enquiry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxk1 View Post
Hey, nothing about the 2010 debacle!

DK
Yes the 908 broke badly... but they pulverized the "race" lap record with 3.19 flat... after 20h of race ... a mark perhaps will take several years to overcame.
hcl123 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Nov 2010, 06:28 (Ref:2787912)   #65
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxk1 View Post
Hey, nothing about the 2010 debacle!

DK
The timestamp on the video says June 3rd, so unless the person making it was a time traveller, you couldn't fit that bit in the video.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 15 Nov 2010, 12:36 (Ref:2790988)   #66
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
Possible update on the 90X's testing schedule:

@antdavidson on Twitter

Quote:
Just arrived at Heathrow. Now off to Spain for Peugeot duties.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 15 Nov 2010, 14:12 (Ref:2791046)   #67
Tim the Grey
Veteran
 
Tim the Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Wales
Across the M40 from Gaydon...
Posts: 3,834
Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!
I caught his shameless plug for LM, mid race, with Martin, too...
"Ah, racing into the night. Just like Le Mans!"
I wonder if any F1 istas may come to look at cars with covered wheels? No, I don't think so either!
Tim the Grey is offline  
__________________
Tim Yorath
Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
Quote
Old 17 Nov 2010, 23:59 (Ref:2792374)   #68
E46
Veteran
 
E46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Spain
Zaragoza, Reino de Aragón
Posts: 1,592
E46 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
According SportMotores.es Marc Gené suffered today a heavy crash at Motorland Aragon during Peugeot testing duties.
E46 is offline  
__________________
"It seemed that Andy had another 75bhp on me, and that as soon as he got on the straight he´d press a button, turn a knob and off he went", Steve Soper
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 00:03 (Ref:2792376)   #69
Tim the Grey
Veteran
 
Tim the Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Wales
Across the M40 from Gaydon...
Posts: 3,834
Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!
I trust Marc's OK? If the car's bent, so what, they can make a new one.
Tim the Grey is offline  
__________________
Tim Yorath
Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 00:34 (Ref:2792386)   #70
The359
Veteran
 
The359's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
United States
Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 2,437
The359 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Making a new one takes time and means Peugeot will be behind on their testing.
The359 is offline  
__________________
Nulla Tenaci Invia Est Via
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 01:55 (Ref:2792400)   #71
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
How many 90X T-cars does Peugeot have? If they have only one and it's totaled, that will stall their test schedule big time, especially if they don't have a spare tub. Too early to call, but if this continues, it'll be just like Audi with the original R15--a test program that wasn't wholy satisfactory due to aborted or shortened test due to rain and accidents

I hope for Peugeot that they don't have a troubled a time with the 90X, but if they've been testing since September at least, they have some luxury of time, but each day that Peugeot loses is basically a day that Audi gains at this stage, since the R18 has been testing more than likely, and perhaps as early as September for all we know, and it can be conculded that Audi already may be ahead or at least on the same level, as the R18 is due to be publically launched within a month's time, though that may be irrlevenant--the Audi R10 was launced in mid-December 2005, and only had done a few tests dating from late Novemeber of that year.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 03:25 (Ref:2792420)   #72
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,377
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Why only 1 car? I'd assume a back-up is around.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 07:34 (Ref:2792463)   #73
Victor_RO
Veteran
 
Victor_RO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Romania
Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Posts: 6,269
Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!Victor_RO is going for a new world record!
If the first car has been shaken down in July, I'm pretty sure they should already have at least one more tub on hand, 4 months is enough to lay a new tub.
Victor_RO is offline  
__________________
When in doubt? C4.
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 08:31 (Ref:2792491)   #74
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I hope for Peugeot that they don't have a troubled a time with the 90X, but if they've been testing since September at least, they have some luxury of time, but each day that Peugeot loses is basically a day that Audi gains at this stage, since the R18 has been testing more than likely, and perhaps as early as September for all we know, and it can be conculded that Audi already may be ahead or at least on the same level, as the R18 is due to be publically launched within a month's time, though that may be irrlevenant--the Audi R10 was launced in mid-December 2005, and only had done a few tests dating from late Novemeber of that year.
I think you are dreaming. According to Ullrich they want to start testing the R18 mid December. If Audi was testing for a while like you claim, we would have known by now...
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2010, 09:01 (Ref:2792499)   #75
Mal
Veteran
 
Mal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
England
London
Posts: 4,346
Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!Mal is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
I think you are dreaming. According to Ullrich they want to start testing the R18 mid December. If Audi was testing for a while like you claim, we would have known by now...
If think he was referring to Pug not Audi
Mal is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peugeot 908 for '09 HORNDAWG Sportscar & GT Racing 648 11 Nov 2009 18:16
Peugeot 908 racing at Watkins Glen! ;) CTD North American Racing 16 14 Aug 2009 20:07
Peugeot 908 testing 2007 zac510 Sportscar & GT Racing 330 3 Dec 2008 04:17
Peugeot 908 Hybrid FIRE Sportscar & GT Racing 50 1 Nov 2008 11:18
Henri considering a Peugeot 908, or a move to the ALMS. Fogelhund North American Racing 97 5 Aug 2007 04:36


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.