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Old 30 Apr 2022, 16:24 (Ref:4108497)   #1076
V8 Fireworks
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
To me it seemed like the priority was make the Mustang look like a Mustang and come up with something that get’s approval from GM to use the Camaro, then if there’s time see what you can do about costs.
I don't understand why, say, the Nissan Z (as a thanks to their ultimately unfruitful support of the ATCC during COTF) and perhaps BMW M4 were not also priorities.

It doesn't make sense for the Australian Touring Car Championship to only include American cars and not include Asian and European cars.

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With Seamer now gone, Is there a chance Supercars will open up the engine regs and allow different configurations other than V8's? Assuming Craig Hasted can get similar torque curves - should be a no brainer.
Certainly! It would make sense for about half the field to be six-cylinder turbos (the aforementioned Nissan Z and M4 [in GT3 form for reference], or cars along those lines) as downsize turbo engines are more representative of most modern performance cars.

The loud naturally aspirated crossplane V8s would still be there, but there would be more variety too. Perhaps a maximum of six or seven cars per manufacture regulation is needed? That would encourage some of the 888 customer teams to not run the Camaro, but to run one of the other vehicles.

[Heck the Mercedes C63 is going to a four-cylinder turbo with a hybrid system, but that's a discussion for another day...

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Old 30 Apr 2022, 17:57 (Ref:4108512)   #1077
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Will it stop SVG winning?
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Old 1 May 2022, 12:44 (Ref:4108568)   #1078
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I’m sure he will start to get beaten more, but he should still get enough wins to be a championship challenger
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Old 1 May 2022, 14:59 (Ref:4108584)   #1079
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I’m sure he will start to get beaten more
Like when ?

He's the next level
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Old 1 May 2022, 16:02 (Ref:4108589)   #1080
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Don't think SVG will be beaten anytime soon. He'll be like Whincup - winning lots of titles and races for years to come. Shame McLaughlin left - these two would create a great title fight. De Pasquale is good but certainly not good enough at the moment - maybe it's also a matter of DJR not being as strong as it used to be with Penske's support. Tickford's getting more and more mediocre so even if Waters was on top of his game, he could win a few races and that would be it. Brodie and Will Brown seem very talented, although driving for Erebus they won't win with SVG. Also, they'd need some time to be able to win with Van Gisbergen in the same car. Mostert can be great on a good day but WAU is not consistent enough to give him chances to battle with SVG on equal terms.

All in all, I guess Van Gisbergen will win a few titles in row before someone really challenges him. I'd like to be mistaken, however, as it's quite boring seeing one guy winning over and over again - no matter how impressive that is.
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Old 1 May 2022, 18:26 (Ref:4108608)   #1081
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Somehow still surprised he has only two titles.
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Old 1 May 2022, 18:27 (Ref:4108609)   #1082
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Probably because in the past few years there were two names who prevented him from winning - McLaughlin and Whincup
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Old 2 May 2022, 08:17 (Ref:4108650)   #1083
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This idea of boring seems to be an internet thing as it was never a factor pre internet. Maybe the fans are more easily bored than when we had to get our news via magazines and news papers.
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All in all, I guess Van Gisbergen will win a few titles in row before someone really challenges him. I'd like to be mistaken, however, as it's quite boring seeing one guy winning over and over again - no matter how impressive that is.
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Old 2 May 2022, 13:10 (Ref:4108662)   #1084
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Perhaps it is, the biggest problem in my opinion is that it seems Van Gisbergen really doesn't have a rival. Take McLaughlin's dominance, for instance. There was Whincup racing then, Van Gisbergen as well, the dynamics of DJRTP v Triple 8 really made it much more exciting even if most of the times it was McLaughlin who came up on top.

I may be a bit biased of course as I was a fan of Scotty, whereas I've never particularly liked Triple 8 for whatever reason (despite cheering for SVG from his earliest days in Supercars) so my perception is definitely influenced by that. Nevertheless, I'd like to see someone really challenging Van Giz, at the moment, no one is even close.
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Old 2 May 2022, 18:40 (Ref:4108695)   #1085
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Perhaps it is, the biggest problem in my opinion is that it seems Van Gisbergen really doesn't have a rival. Take McLaughlin's dominance, for instance. There was Whincup racing then, Van Gisbergen as well, the dynamics of DJRTP v Triple 8 really made it much more exciting even if most of the times it was McLaughlin who came up on top.

I may be a bit biased of course as I was a fan of Scotty, whereas I've never particularly liked Triple 8 for whatever reason (despite cheering for SVG from his earliest days in Supercars) so my perception is definitely influenced by that. Nevertheless, I'd like to see someone really challenging Van Giz, at the moment, no one is even close.
I agree
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Old 4 May 2022, 06:40 (Ref:4108845)   #1086
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This idea of boring seems to be an internet thing as it was never a factor pre internet. Maybe the fans are more easily bored than when we had to get our news via magazines and news papers.
There were plenty of complaints about Skaife domination, albeit in the internet era.

If there were no fan complaints before popularisation of the internet, why was there a campaign to ban Sierras and Skylines and their "boring domination" from the ATCC?!
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Old 4 May 2022, 09:48 (Ref:4108864)   #1087
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If there were no fan complaints before popularisation of the internet, why was there a campaign to ban Sierras and Skylines and their "boring domination" from the ATCC?!
It's different when all of the teams have an equal technical chance of a victory.

In the Group A era where you had to have the latest car in an unsustainable arms race, there was only one way it was going to go. The R32 GTR was arguably the last product of the famous Japanese bubble era of unlimited budgets.

Unfortunately now if you own one, the spend required to keep all the electrogubbins working is also unlimited.
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Old 4 May 2022, 10:38 (Ref:4108872)   #1088
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It's different when all of the teams have an equal technical chance of a victory.

In the Group A era where you had to have the latest car in an unsustainable arms race, there was only one way it was going to go. The R32 GTR was arguably the last product of the famous Japanese bubble era of unlimited budgets.

Unfortunately now if you own one, the spend required to keep all the electrogubbins working is also unlimited.
To place this in perspective the final year the ATCC for Group A, 1992 saw Ford win the most races (8), Nissan next with 7, then BMW with 2 and Holden with one victory. It was unbalanced but our memories of the era which recall the GTR winning everything are slightly blurred by the "the GTR was banned" rubbish.

The call for change, whether brought upon by fans or Channel Seven, which ran polls asking their viewers if the rules should be changed to make the Commodore more competitive, was superseded by the fact that Group A was dead (in respect of touring cars) and a replacement formula had to be found.
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Old 4 May 2022, 13:57 (Ref:4108891)   #1089
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The call for change, whether brought upon by fans or Channel Seven, which ran polls asking their viewers if the rules should be changed to make the Commodore more competitive, was superseded by the fact that Group A was dead (in respect of touring cars) and a replacement formula had to be found.
So why not make more simple rear wheel drive turbo Skylines the key to the replacement formula, retaining the support of this valued manufacturer?

Turbochargers were the future after all, and a Walkinshaw Group 3A Commodore fitted with the boosted six from the Lotus Vauxhall Carlton would presumably have outperformed the pushrod-V8 versions (be it Group A SS or HSV Clubsport) that actually made it to production...

IIRC, the EB Falcon XR6 nearly outperformed the EB Falcon XR8 even without a turbo, so a 1993 version of the Falcon XR6 Turbo racing in Group 3A alongside Group A Sierras would be most logical too.

If need be, the R32 & then R33 Skyline did have a sedan bodystyle too to directly match the Falcon and Commodore, if 4 doors were a priority for the Group 3A regulations. With it being about the same size, there seems no reason not to have a Skyline on the grid in Cochrane's "Straight Six Supercars"?!

Then, as now, there seems to not be sufficient priority placed on catering (pandering?) to non-American auto makers in the ATCC. That Supercars will pay for a Camaro homologation but not pay for a Z homologation makes no sense.

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Old 5 May 2022, 07:08 (Ref:4108942)   #1090
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It was from the other competitors mainly and once a year at Bathurst. Now it is a never ending whinefest on the internet because someone wins more than two races in succession.
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There were plenty of complaints about Skaife domination, albeit in the internet era.

If there were no fan complaints before popularisation of the internet, why was there a campaign to ban Sierras and Skylines and their "boring domination" from the ATCC?!
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Old 5 May 2022, 07:30 (Ref:4108944)   #1091
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Yes I agree. So what if one driver dominates? As long as there is close competitive racing, it shouldn't matter too much
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Old 7 May 2022, 11:21 (Ref:4109132)   #1092
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Yes I agree. So what if one driver dominates? As long as there is close competitive racing, it shouldn't matter too much
Yes.
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Old 12 May 2022, 03:48 (Ref:4109705)   #1093
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Yes I agree. So what if one driver dominates? As long as there is close competitive racing, it shouldn't matter too much
I didn't mind Scotty cleaning up all the time, as his head is clearly bolted between shoulder's and not located elsewhere like some other drivers over the course of history. This is where people start to turn off when a drivers personality disappears up the proverbial black hole.

SVG is ok, but lacks that little bit that would make him more palatable or it could just be the team around him that makes everyone feel like that. Which then leads on to, if T8 weren't at the top of pile and SVG was winning, what would peoples opinion be then??
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Old 12 May 2022, 12:34 (Ref:4109743)   #1094
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Scotty was good for the series, he had a good head on his shoulders. And yes there have been a few whose ego have been unbearable. That's the thing, it's bad enough for the same driver wins all the time, but it's worse if he shows a lack of humility

I like SVG, he's a good character and is exciting to watch and quite good to listen to too. He's been in a good team in T8, but he deserves his success all the same
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Old 7 Jun 2022, 15:45 (Ref:4113424)   #1095
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No change to Goodyear Eagle tyres from Dunlop Sport Maxx, it seems Goodyear don't have enough motorsport manufacturing capacity in Europe or North America, so manufacturing will stay with Sumitomo in Japan and hence the tyres will continue with Dunlop branding.

https://autoaction.com.au/2022/03/31...-has-blown-out

With the way Dunlop is split between Sumitomo and Goodyear, it seems neither entity is wanting to invest heavily in pushing new Dunlop product in recent years, which is really a shame for the iconic Irish tyre brand.

New Falken and new Goodyear products respectively seem to appear on the market far more frequently than new Dunlop products. A lot of Dunlop products from either company seem to be at least two generations behind the equivalent Falken or Goodyear at this point.

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Old 19 Sep 2022, 13:53 (Ref:4126497)   #1096
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The new Mustang:



On the Camaro side, the plot thickens:

Quote:
New rumors point to Chevy using the Camaro name for an electric sedan.
https://www.motor1.com/news/524557/c...an-renderings/

Have Supercars made the wrong choice by sticking with ICE at a time when both the Chevrolet Camaro and Dodge Challenger will soon be transitioning to electric?!

If the Mustang is the only remaining ICE muscle car in 2024, wouldn't a one-make Mustang series be more authentic?

Meanwhile Ford Performance are releasing a Mustang GT3, which could race neatly against the BMW M4 GT3 and others, and arguably make Gen 3 regulations redundant anyway...
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Old 19 Sep 2022, 21:33 (Ref:4126525)   #1097
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Bring it on! Now!
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 05:15 (Ref:4126550)   #1098
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If the Mustang is the only remaining ICE muscle car in 2024, wouldn't a one-make Mustang series be more authentic?
Who cares what the production car has? They can still race a V8 even if the car is electric.

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Meanwhile Ford Performance are releasing a Mustang GT3, which could race neatly against the BMW M4 GT3 and others, and arguably make Gen 3 regulations redundant anyway...
The fact that you still think GT3 would render Gen3 redundant shows you have no clue at all.

GT3 cars cost an absurd amount - many of them easily in $1m territory. They are much more fragile and less repairable than any Supercar. They have yearly upgrades that cost equally as much and cars are rendered uncompetitive very often after a new car appears.

Most importantly moving to GT3 would never be considered for Supercars as most of the teams are manufacturing businesses that make stuff to go racing. If you don't understand that now you should really stop commenting.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 11:27 (Ref:4126574)   #1099
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GT3 cars cost an absurd amount - many of them easily in $1m territory.
The Gen 3 kit is rumoured to cost $600,000 AUD before labour, wildly missing the cost target.

Thinking manufacturer representation from the likes of BMW, Nissan, Lexus and Mercedes as you find in GT3 is unimportant is what is truly missing the point!

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Most importantly moving to GT3 would never be considered for Supercars as most of the teams are manufacturing businesses that make stuff to go racing. If you don't understand that now you should really stop commenting.
Lol. Yeah all these teams like Matt Stone Racing, PremiAir Racing and Team 18 with their big fabrication shops... (Not!)

I'm all for a return to free chassis design, but the idea teams are allowed to design their own chassis, suspension, pedal boxes, uprights, throttle bodies, dry sumps etc under Gen 3 is demonstrably wrong. You have two control engine suppliers and nearly all control parts for the entire car...

Pray tell, what parts ARE the CNC machines at Brad Jones Racing or Grove Racing actually allowed to make under Gen 3? Certainly not the front uprights anymore, nor the dry sumps, nor the throttle bodies, nor...

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Old 20 Sep 2022, 11:51 (Ref:4126575)   #1100
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Thinking manufacturer representation from the likes of BMW, Nissan, Lexus and Mercedes as you find in GT3 is unimportant is what is truly missing the point!
Manufacturers are not represented in GT3 - it's illegal.

Manufacturers develop GT3 vehicles to sell to CUSTOMERS, and make a profit doing so.

With recent currency movements a competitive GT3 car will surely be in the $1.2m range, and if you crash one properly you need another one.

Let's not forget even at B12hr this year 2 entire new cars were required after Practice 1.

How many COTF cars have been written off and could not be repaired cost effectively? The up front purchase price is somewhat irrelevant when you realise that current front runners are running cars 3+ seasons old.
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