How much faster could GTE/GTLM go?

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Mitchi_S

Which GT3 car did a 2.15 at Spa? That must be the fastest GT3 time I've ever seen in Spa. That's basically GT1 pace.

GT Open I think does not BoP the cars. They use pit stop time handicapping.

[Bob Baldwin]

Originally Posted by Mitchi_S

Which GT3 car did a 2.15 at Spa? That must be the fastest GT3 time I've ever seen in Spa. That's basically GT1 pace.

Not sure if I am buying those times .

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Danathar

Well, I'd imagine you would not want to go TOO far outside what is sold to consumers. I don't recall but isn't ABS and TC also banned in GTE/GTLM?

Upgrading to carbon brakes would be fine.

I think an article has been done before to compare the off the lot version of the Corvette vs the race version. But that was years ago. It would be REALLY interesting to see what the current crop of GTE/GTLM drivers could do lap time using an off the lot with all the options corvette compared to the IMSA spec version at one of the tracks they go to.

I think they are hedging the GTLM cars back too far from their street counterparts, with respect to power anyway.

For whatever it is worth, Randy Pobst did a 1:33.005 in a Z06 and a 1:33.29 in a 991 GT3 at Laguna Seca last year. Qualifying times were 1:23.39 and 1:23.96 respectively for their GTLM versions this year.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I think they are hedging the GTLM cars back too far from their street counterparts, with respect to power anyway.

For whatever it is worth, Randy Pobst did a 1:33.005 in a Z06 and a 1:33.29 in a 991 GT3 at Laguna Seca last year. Qualifying times were 1:23.39 and 1:23.96 respectively for their GTLM versions this year.

Daytona is a good example of a this. The GTLM cars have frequently gone through the infield section keeping a nearby DP/LMP2 car behind it. Then when they get on the oval/banking, that is where the prototype cars shoot off in the distance.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Not sure if I am buying those times .

Why? With how crazy some of those GT3 cars are getting it's not surprising they could be pushing GT1 pace if they're running with fewer restrictions. I've seen enough information to indicate that some of those GT3 cars could knock on the door of current P2 times if they ran unrestricted(to be clear: When I say "knock on the door" I do NOT mean "almost identical." Using Spa as a measuring stick since it's what's been brought up here, we're not talking the 2:07s that LMP2 can do, we're talking mid-2:10s/low 2:11s).

But, I went ahead and looked up the times for GT Open at Spa, which can be found here: http://www.gtopen.net/races.php?cat=3&cont=3

And indeed, in qualifying 1, Gustavo Yacaman took a BMW M6 GT3 to a time of 2:15.7.

I don't think GT Open runs unrestricted as it has performance restrictions added/removed based on a car's performance in the most recent race - I'm pretty sure they just have a higher initial balance cap. But that quali time for GT Open at Spa is just short of 3 seconds faster than Blancpain(quali sessions were led by lap times of 2.18.5 and 218.4).

[TF110]

Pretty sure that Viper GT3 in the dutch gt series ran a 2:15 or lower at Spa in qualifying.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by TF110

Pretty sure that Viper GT3 in the dutch gt series ran a 2:15 or lower at Spa in qualifying.

The Dutch Supercar Challenge? Wouldn't surprise me. They actually have to open those things up if they want to keep thing level due to the wide variety of machinery in the class - even old GT1 cars are allowed there. So much stuff allowed there that more often than not it's easier to balance by removing restrictions.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

The Dutch Supercar Challenge? Wouldn't surprise me. They actually have to open those things up if they want to keep thing level due to the wide variety of machinery in the class - even old GT1 cars are allowed there. So much stuff allowed there that more often than not it's easier to balance by removing restrictions.

Yup, that's the one. Team RaceArt it was.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

I don't think GT Open runs unrestricted as it has performance restrictions added/removed based on a car's performance in the most recent race - I'm pretty sure they just have a higher initial balance cap. But that quali time for GT Open at Spa is just short of 3 seconds faster than Blancpain(quali sessions were led by lap times of 2.18.5 and 218.4).

Are GT Open and Blancpain cars equal? The latter uses rubbish tires(Pirellis) and the formers uses Michelin's customers(much inferior to confidential's), is the difference all due to that?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Artur

Are GT Open and Blancpain cars equal? The latter uses rubbish tires(Pirellis) and the formers uses Michelin's customers(much inferior to confidential's), is the difference all due to that?

I have my doubts it's all down to that. It is true that Pirelli's race tires aren't up to the same level as Michelin, but Pirelli also gets an unfairly bad rap due to their FIA-mandated performance degradation causing numerous headaches in F1. They DO make more than decent tires when a series' management isn't lording over them demanding their tires wear down more over a stint.

So, yeah, I'm sure SOME of the difference is down to the tires, but I seriously doubt it's the entirety of it. How much is down to the tires? I really can't say for sure, but I personally would be surprised if it accounted for more than 50% of the difference.

[Artur]

I also think that 3s is too much for tires alone, unless Pirelli don't bother at all to bring a decent spec customer tires. Based on WEC 2012, the tire difference between Michelin and Pirelli confidential tires, for the GTEs, should be in the 1.5s ballpark.

IDK, Mike Hedlund already told us that the tires on PWC are relatively very good, compared to Contis/Hoosier. Maybe Pirelli takes worse customers tires, to Blancpain, on purpose. If the stints lengths are different, then, that could be it because Pirelli tires normally, not only in F1, tends to wear relatively quicker and when they bring durable tires to the racetrack, the performance usually get's relatively worse, ie, when compounds need to be harder, then Pirelli struggles more than when compounds can be from softer ranges.

Nevertheless, GT Open has much less reputation than Blancpain, so it's somewhat curious that their actually lap 3s quicker

[chernaudi]

To me, this is just like arguing/debating if LMP1 cars were still 2000mm wide, had approx. 14.5 inch wide front wheels/tires (near equal sized tires on all four corners), and air restrictors vs fuel flow meters. Let alone the larger engines they were allowed to have pre 2011.

[Carbone]

BOP Open GT :

Lamborghini Huracan GT3 : 1'290 kg / restrictors : 2x40mm
McLaren 650 S : 1'265 kg / restrictors : 2x38mm
Ferrari F458 GT3 = 1'260 kg / restrictors : 2x43mm
BMW M6 GT3 = 1'310 kg / Pboost : 1.65 to 7'000 rpm

BOP Blancpain GT :

Lamborghini Huracan GT3 : 1'285 kg / restrictors : 2x38mm
McLaren 650 S : 1'265 kg / restrictors : 2x36mm
Ferrari F458 GT3 = 1'260 kg / restrictors : 2x43mm
BMW M6 GT3 = 1'310 kg / Pboost : 1.61 to 7'000 rpm

[MaskedRacer]

Courtesy of the EventMaximum speed file on results.imsa.com from Road America. I'd say that the GTLM cars need more horsepower to get more top speed.

Do they have it at all or are they BoP'ed down?

GTLM

66 Dirk Mueller Ford Chip Ganassi Racing Ford GT 165.0 15 Practice 3

GTLM

67 Richard Westbrook Ford Chip Ganassi Racing Ford GT 165.0 6 Practice 1

GTLM

911 Patrick Pilet Porsche North America Porsche 911 RSR 165.0 15 Practice 3

GTD

16 Spencer Pumpelly Change Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.4 16 Practice 3

GTD

33 Ben Keating Riley Motorsports Dodge Viper GT3-R 164.4 4 Practice 3

GTD

27 Cedric Sbirrazzuoli Dream Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.1 19 Practice 3

GTLM

3 Antonio Garcia Corvette Racing Chevrolet Corvette C7.R 164.1 5 Qualifying

GTD

48 Bryan Sellers Paul Miller Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.1 17 Practice 2

GTLM

100 John Edwards BMW Team RLL BMW M6 GTLM 163.7 2 Practice 3

GTLM

25 Dirk Werner BMW Team RLL BMW M6 GTLM 163.7 4 Practice 3

GTLM

4 Oliver Gavin Corvette Racing Chevrolet Corvette C7.R 163.7 15 Practice 3

GTLM

62 Giancarlo Fisichella Risi Competizione Ferrari 488 GTE 163.4 19 Practice 1

GTLM

912 Frederic Makowiecki Porsche North America Porsche 911 RSR 163.4 13 Practice 2

GTD

6 Andrew Davis Stevenson Motorsports Audi R8 LMS GT3 163.1 4 Practice 3

GTD

80 Mike Skeen Lone Star Racing Dodge Viper GT3-R 162.8 19 Practice 2

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[joeb]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Courtesy of the EventMaximum speed file on results.imsa.com from Road America. I'd say that the GTLM cars need more horsepower to get more top speed.

Do they have it at all or are they BoP'ed down?

GTLM

66 Dirk Mueller Ford Chip Ganassi Racing Ford GT 165.0 15 Practice 3

GTLM

67 Richard Westbrook Ford Chip Ganassi Racing Ford GT 165.0 6 Practice 1

GTLM

911 Patrick Pilet Porsche North America Porsche 911 RSR 165.0 15 Practice 3

GTD

16 Spencer Pumpelly Change Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.4 16 Practice 3

GTD

33 Ben Keating Riley Motorsports Dodge Viper GT3-R 164.4 4 Practice 3

GTD

27 Cedric Sbirrazzuoli Dream Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.1 19 Practice 3

GTLM

3 Antonio Garcia Corvette Racing Chevrolet Corvette C7.R 164.1 5 Qualifying

GTD

48 Bryan Sellers Paul Miller Racing Lamborghini Huracan GT3 164.1 17 Practice 2

GTLM

100 John Edwards BMW Team RLL BMW M6 GTLM 163.7 2 Practice 3

GTLM

25 Dirk Werner BMW Team RLL BMW M6 GTLM 163.7 4 Practice 3

GTLM

4 Oliver Gavin Corvette Racing Chevrolet Corvette C7.R 163.7 15 Practice 3

GTLM

62 Giancarlo Fisichella Risi Competizione Ferrari 488 GTE 163.4 19 Practice 1

GTLM

912 Frederic Makowiecki Porsche North America Porsche 911 RSR 163.4 13 Practice 2

GTD

6 Andrew Davis Stevenson Motorsports Audi R8 LMS GT3 163.1 4 Practice 3

GTD

80 Mike Skeen Lone Star Racing Dodge Viper GT3-R 162.8 19 Practice 2

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I think the top speed is one of the things considered in Bop adjustment. That is why they are so close at the top

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think the top speed is one of the things considered in Bop adjustment. That is why they are so close at the top

Without question, the GTLM cars have about another three-five seconds wide open. No BoP and a 'Vette will do a 1:57 at RA, the Ford, not far behind that, if not in front of it.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Without question, the GTLM cars have about another three-five seconds wide open. No BoP and a 'Vette will do a 1:57 at RA, the Ford, not far behind that, if not in front of it.

Given that the Ford GT is designed to effectively be a prototype in GT clothing(both the road car AND the racecar), you can bet the Ford would be VERY ahead of the Corvette with no BoP.

Multimatic has implied that if left unrestricted the Ford GTE is capable of LMP2 speeds, but I never really put much stock in that sort of claim.

[TF110]

It's not the power of the car, it's the weight. They'd have no problem making 600hp if they were allowed to. I wonder what the weight would be if they had an option to do a light car. GT1 had cars at 1100kg, could the modern cars go that low?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Given that the Ford GT is designed to effectively be a prototype in GT clothing(both the road car AND the racecar), you can bet the Ford would be VERY ahead of the Corvette with no BoP.

Multimatic has implied that if left unrestricted the Ford GTE is capable of LMP2 speeds, but I never really put much stock in that sort of claim.

A 1:57+ at RA is P2 speeds. They've done it... the pre-LM test saw unrestricted testing.