Do you Think TGF would have been winning if he drove for BAR?

Frank_White · 20 May 2004, 13:19 (Ref:976581)

I personally think that Michael would have won several races if he was a BAR driver. He has always managed to win even in patently inferior cars.

**Adam43** · 20 May 2004, 13:32 (Ref:976590)

Depends who was in the other Ferrari...

Antoher Rubens in the Ferrari and yes Michael might have a win or two. He is good enough to do that. Put a Alonso/Kimi/JPM/Button* in the Ferrari and perhaps not.

1fity iffy if if.

*delete as appropriate

ralf fan · 20 May 2004, 13:40 (Ref:976599)

yeah it think if you put MS in this years BAr he would have won quite a few.... not romping victories but still i think he is fastest driver on the grid..

climb · 20 May 2004, 14:01 (Ref:976617)

An he would have certainly got several pole positions.

KC · 20 May 2004, 15:43 (Ref:976714)

Interesting question. I would not be surprised either way. MS has proven that he is an excellent driver and he is also excellent and getting the team to perform as well. The same chemistry may or may not happen with a new team. MS also has the benefit of being teamed up with Ross Brawn for the successful part of his career and without him at the helm of BAR, maybe things would not be as rosy.

avsfan733 · 20 May 2004, 15:59 (Ref:976728)

He might have a one or two but not any more. BAR isn't quite on the level of Ferrari (well a little more than not quite

) but the real shortcoming is the pure Ferrari strategery dominance

Kirk · 20 May 2004, 16:32 (Ref:976759)

Before this year, and assuming all the other BAR players were intact since inception, NOT A CHANCE. This year, inevitably yes.

DriverT · 20 May 2004, 17:07 (Ref:976781)

I believe in this year's BAR, TGF would have won at least 4 races.

Raven · 20 May 2004, 17:07 (Ref:976782)

IMO, no, he would not have won any races in the BAR. Personally I think if you put him in Sato's BAR he would be out performed by Button.

**Adam43** · 20 May 2004, 17:23 (Ref:976792)

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
Personally I think if you put him in Sato's BAR he would be out performed by Button.

Nah, not at all. If he got in it tomorrow with no testing (and a bad cold) maybe, but it wouldn't take him long. IMHO.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 May 2004, 17:57 (Ref:976810)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Nah, not at all. If he got in it tomorrow with no testing (and a bad cold) maybe, but it wouldn't take him long. IMHO.

So what you appear to be saying is that he's better than JV.

Phew I knew I could get him into a thread tonight!

**garcon** · 20 May 2004, 18:04 (Ref:976820)

Are you on a mission tonight, Pete?

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
IMO, no, he would not have won any races in the BAR. Personally I think if you put him in Sato's BAR he would be out performed by Button.

OK, we're all allowed our opinions, but that means we're allowed to laugh at them too, right?

Honestly, I think it's very difficult to say. It's almost impossible to split Schumacher from the Ferrari - they come as a package (so to speak

). So if Michael drove for BAR, the chances are the Ferrari wouldn't be as good as it is and the BAR would be even better than it is.

In a hypothetical, one-off race, (let's say Michael in a BAR and Button in a Ferrari), it'd be close. Darned close!

*anyone got a pair of tweasers? - I think I've got a splinter on me arse... *

**Peter Mallett** · 20 May 2004, 18:09 (Ref:976828)

Quote:

Originally posted by garcon
Are you on a mission tonight, Pete?

[/i]

Well I just thought I'd get our mates involved when the get on line in Canada.

**garcon** · 20 May 2004, 18:12 (Ref:976832)

Do they need encouragement?!

**Peter Mallett** · 20 May 2004, 18:18 (Ref:976838)

Well its been, um, er, hours since the last JV thread.

Don K · 20 May 2004, 18:40 (Ref:976853)

Depends on what you mean exactly.

- If Michael would have been at BAR right from the moment they bought Tyrell, I think he would have won a couple of WDC's by now.
- If Michael would have joined BAR just before the first race of this season, I think he would have gotten a couple of podiums by now.
- If Michael would have joined BAR last season, I think both he and his team mate would have won a race this year already.

ASCII Man · 20 May 2004, 18:42 (Ref:976856)

If he was in a BAR then i think he would be able to win a select amount of races, yes.
Let's see, we have Monaco coming up which i'm quite certain that he has a big chance to win in, then theres Hungary which is somewhat similar to Monaco but to a lesser degree, so his chances would be relatively similar, then there's Spa where he always seems to go very well and then also when there's rain his quite excellent tactical mind *ASCII pinches himself* has the edge more often than not.

So yeah, i think he can win a few races in the '04 BAR.

Snrub · 20 May 2004, 19:29 (Ref:976923)

I think he would might have won one race. MS has simply had the car to blow everyone away. He's more or less paced himself in the races. He drops some mind blowing laps at some crutial times, but you have to remember that he is perfectly capable of doing that lap after lap, not just when the pit stops happen. While this years car may not be the F2002, it certainly has more than MS shows. Through the race he typically drives it .5-1 sec slower than he is capable of. Remember that JPM out qualified MS and the F2002 quiet often but had nothing for them in the race because MS went full out for 75% of the race.

Redblurr · 20 May 2004, 19:32 (Ref:976926)

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank_White
I personally think that Michael would have won several races if he was a BAR driver. He has always managed to win even in patently inferior cars.

absolutley spot on Frank_White

Bleu · 20 May 2004, 19:34 (Ref:976930)

I think he could have had chance to win a possibly one in BAR, maybe at Imola.

No more.

gfm · 20 May 2004, 20:02 (Ref:976944)

... and would Button then win the World Championship if he had Schumacher's Ferrari?

ASCII Man · 20 May 2004, 20:04 (Ref:976946)

I think he can win one, maybe even two.
But continued success as in multiple WDC's (3+ WDC's for example) is a different matter.

shiny side up! · 20 May 2004, 20:11 (Ref:976951)

This entire thread is (necessarily) conjecture, but I think he would have a few wins in the BAR. I agree with the notion that the most significant factor in how many wins he would have is who is in the Ferrari. As much as I hate to say it, TGF is the fastest driver on the grid, I think by a fair margin over all tracks/dates/times/weather/situations, and armed with that, would bring a good fight to Ferrari if he was in the BAR.

grumpy1 · 20 May 2004, 20:57 (Ref:977011)

Ok consider what follows and then make up your minds.
A couple of years ago MS paid Paul Stoddart a large wad of cash to borrow his 2 seat car so he could show his wife and mechanics what it was like to be in a F1 car at full noise.
I cannot remember which track was used but I do recall a GP was held there that year.(important fact)The times MS layed down were impresive.So impresive in fact it would have put that car 11th or 12th on the grid that year.
Now it is important to remember this was a 2 seat Minardi.
Paul Stoddart expressed disbelife at all of this and was then heard to say the people he was taking out the next day had better not expect the same as there was no way he was even going to come close to the times MS was putting down.
After you consider that it is clear that even if MS was driving a Jag,Jordan or Minardi he would have at least been on the podium if not on the top step.
The guy is a freak and as long as hes having fun he will drive in F1 regardless of whos car it is.

The Grumpy1

P.S. Have a nice day

Raven · 20 May 2004, 21:08 (Ref:977024)

No offence grumpy1, but that's complete & utter ********.

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