Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Lasse]

Stupid question - what is a PFV (Performance Factory Vehicle)?

Never heard of that before.

[Adam43]

Fast road car made by a car company?

[Articus]

Interesting...Assuming this thing has to have a roll cage, then it seems like GT3 and GT4 already take care of this...

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

IMSA possibly considering a PFV(Performance Factory Vehicle) class for Weathertech series? Sounds like wishful thinking to me, but the rumor's making the rounds with the contacts I talk to.

But I won't lie... I'd love to see it. I think that's the only class IMSA could add that could actually improve things. (not to mention a PFV class could make a great fallback should Stateside interest in LMP2/DPi falter)

Is a PFV like late 90's GT1?

[FormulaFox]

There's probably a better term to use, but "PFV" is what the people I've heard talking about it are using so I slipped into that terminology - you could call it an "open" class, but since there are likely to be restrictions that would be a bit misleading.

Anyhow, PFV is one of many terms for semi-open classes featuring factory-built cars, sometimes roadcar based but usually not, which don't fit homologation requirements for any other class. Examples include the Ginetta G57, Renault Sport RS01, and the Radical RXC Coupe. (the latter two have managed to get GT3 homolgations, but both are restricted relative to their normal versions - the unhomologated versions would run in a PFV type of class)

The recently announced Pescarolo 04-LM and Ligier JSP4 would also fit into such a category.

Cars not unlike a late 90s GT1 could make their way to it, but I don't think any such cars really exist right now. Closest I can think of is the aforementioned Renault.

[broadrun96]

Seems like an answer to a question no one has asked??

Esp since the cars you list wouldn't exactly be leaders compared to GTLM. Seems like they are in the LMPC gap more than a headlining class of cars.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Seems like an answer to a question no one has asked??

Personally I stopped worrying about that long ago; Motorsports is full of such things. Probably half the motorsports classes in the world are answers to questions no one asked.

Esp since the cars you list wouldn't exactly be leaders compared to GTLM. Seems like they are in the LMPC gap more than a headlining class of cars.

And why not? If LMP2 can be ahead of GTLM, then certainly these cars could be. Performance shouldn't be much of an issue, as PFVs tend to be a bit faster than LMP3 and GT3(in FIA spec as well as IMSA's restricted spec) despite generally being restricted a fair bit, and without any restrictions the Ginetta G57 actually laps on par with the now-retired generation of LMP2s.

If IMSA has a serious reason to consider it, there's in my opinion no reason not to consider it. But therein lies the issue - IMSA's got a good class lineup already, so do they actually NEED it right now? My gut says no, but I hope they're actually looking at it as considering such things and planning for long-term possibilities is not a bad idea.

[YZFrider]

Sounds intriguing. To echo your words Fox, do we need it? Which got me thinking, if this rumor gains traction, is this possibly a counter against competition ie: projected growth of WEC P1-L, or perhaps a domestic organization that's vying for team/cars?

[deggis]

The potential... size of the can of worms this class' BoP could induce is huge.

[deggis]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36699.html

As Porsche won at Le Mans last weekend, the fabled endurance race was being attended not only by McLaren executive Zak Brown, but also F1 team boss Eric Boullier.

Is the McLaren GTE rumor still alive?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by deggis

The potential... size of the can of worms this class' BoP could induce is huge.

Honestly it can't be any worse than the troubles they're already having across all the current classes. GTLM and GTD in particular have just as wide a variety of stuff to balance as this class would.

[Speed-King]

That PFV thing doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. IMSA is all about the manufacturers, and PFV sounds like the polar opposite of that.

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire 526G dual sim mit Tapatalk

[carbsmith]

There's occasionally the discussion of wanting somewhere to race P1 GTR/FXX-K/Vulcan type things but that's entirely different than orphaned one make prototypes.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by deggis

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36699.html


Is the McLaren GTE rumor still alive?

Very much so, alongside Lamborghini and...?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

That PFV thing doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. IMSA is all about the manufacturers, and PFV sounds like the polar opposite of that.

That's what they want to be, but if that were the case they wouldn't be allowing LMP2 at all. Ultimately, IMSA is smart enough to know they can't put all their eggs in the manufacturer basket - sportscar racing is cyclic, after all, and if they rely too much on it it'll burn them the same way it burned the old IMSA series, and while they clearly have not learned ALL of the lessons of the past, they've actually got an arrangement set up that'll do them well when the enxt downturn occurs - wherever it ends up being(for example: Either GTE or GT3 are going to die sooner than most of us want to believe, and IMSA is in a perfect position to adapt either way by having both in their series).

But no, PFV is not the polar opposite of of having a goal of being about the manufacturers. After all, the class isn't necessarily about garage builds - though you could make it such if you wanted, all the cars in the current most common examples of the classes are built by actual manufacturers. And on the subject of manufacturer interest...

Originally Posted by carbsmith

There's occasionally the discussion of wanting somewhere to race P1 GTR/FXX-K/Vulcan type things but that's entirely different than orphaned one make prototypes.

That's actually kind of the point of the concept - almost anything goes. A PFV class isn't necessarily going to be limited to "orphaned one make prototypes." It can be whatever the series running it feels it needs to be. That's the one irrefutable benefit of the concept; Flexibility. This is a class for which McLaren COULD run a P1, Ferrari a LaFerrari, or Porsche a 918 if they so chose. And if there's no interest for such things, the "orphaned" one-make prototypes fill in the gap.

On the subject of road car manufacturer involvement, though, here's another little something that would be legal in a true PFV class:

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

That's actually kind of the point of the concept - almost anything goes. A PFV class isn't necessarily going to be limited to "orphaned one make prototypes." It can be whatever the series running it feels it needs to be. That's the one irrefutable benefit of the concept; Flexibility. This is a class for which McLaren COULD run a P1, Ferrari a LaFerrari, or Porsche a 918 if they so chose. And if there's no interest for such things, the "orphaned" one-make prototypes fill in the gap.

On the subject of road car manufacturer involvement, though, here's another little something that would be legal in a true PFV class:

So "yes" to late 90's GT1?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

So "yes" to late 90's GT1?

Well, as I said earlier....

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Cars not unlike a late 90s GT1 could make their way to it, but I don't think any such cars really exist right now. Closest I can think of is the aforementioned Renault.

Though that was less than clear for what I meant. Should have said, "I don't think any exist that a manufacturer is really concerned with actually racing."

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

So "yes" to late 90's GT1?

My favorite gt1 cars of the 90s: Nissan 300zx, panoz gtr1, original Porsche gt1

[Adam43]

Next up the McLaren PFV.

[hondafan37]

I hope to see the Glickenhaus SCG 003 in PFV.
James always wanted to be in Daytona and Sebring with this car.

[MaskedRacer]

I betcha if Glickenhaus could pay that million dollar manufacturer fee IMSA mandates they will make a place for them in GTD. I doubt they have those kind of funds though.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

I betcha if Glickenhaus could pay that million dollar manufacturer fee IMSA mandates they will make a place for them in GTD. I doubt they have those kind of funds though.

He will be not in GTD, he will be in the PFV if the rumor is real.
There is a whole page talking about the possibility of IMSA including PFV in your series and you come out with GTD, you should read more before you comment.
If IMSA asks 1 million to those who want to enter PFV they will not have any cars in this category, they are all small manufacturers.

[Speed-King]

Well, so far I'm not particularly convinced there'll be a PFV category at all.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, so far I'm not particularly convinced there'll be a PFV category at all.

I do not know if the PFV is going to happen, it's a rumor like so many others, but if it pass the Glikenhaus could be here.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

If IMSA asks 1 million to those who want to enter PFV they will not have any cars in this category, they are all small manufacturers.

IMSA asks the million of every manufacturers in every class... Except the LMP2 manufacturers.

So, my guess is that Renault would be charged to run the RS01, but Pescarolo and Gintta would get their cars in without it.

It seems to be road car manufacturer = million dollar charge. So Glickenhaus would probably be facing the fee. And I concur, IF a PFV class were in place, they would race the SCG003 in it - they would clearly prefer to run flat out if the option was available, and like the Ginetta G57 the SCG003 can allegedly approach now-old LMP2 speeds. (as can the Ford GT when unrestricted, so an unrestricted GT LM could be seen if a PFV class were to be created)

It's also worth keeping in mind that the manufacturer doesn't have to be the one to pay it up. Ben Keating covered the fee for the Viper and is allegedly putting up at least part of it for the Mercedes. So it might not be an issue - depends on how badly someone would want something in the class.