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Old 28 Apr 2018, 15:08 (Ref:3817907)   #1926
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With or without LMP2 DPi is still a BoP class. It shouldn't matter whether the car they have to BoP to is a Ligier Gibson or a Ligier Nissan, they're either competent at it or not.
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Old 28 Apr 2018, 15:55 (Ref:3817915)   #1927
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With or without LMP2 DPi is still a BoP class. It shouldn't matter whether the car they have to BoP to is a Ligier Gibson or a Ligier Nissan, they're either competent at it or not.
That is true, but I think the discussion centers on people wanting to see cars go fast. 4 races in a row DPi's are being slowed. So if they could go faster imsa could have a pro format in DPI in a 2nd proto class with Pro-Am in lmp2.

Yes the DPI class would be bop'd but it would be at a different speed than the lmp2's.
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Old 28 Apr 2018, 20:31 (Ref:3817945)   #1928
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I really don't think the slowest DPi is reliably fast enough to make that a worthwhile endeavour. You'd gain more just from having real tires. Besides, the sanctioning body has already intentionally slowed the cars down for non-balance reasons a couple times.
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Old 28 Apr 2018, 23:41 (Ref:3817969)   #1929
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That is true, but I think the discussion centers on people wanting to see cars go fast. 4 races in a row DPi's are being slowed. So if they could go faster imsa could have a pro format in DPI in a 2nd proto class with Pro-Am in lmp2.

Yes the DPI class would be bop'd but it would be at a different speed than the lmp2's.
I am not sure IMSA Wants to go back to four classes, and I imagine they think they can make more money with a single top class--P2 pro-am teams might expect a lower entry fee since they wouldn't be competing for overall wins (not that they are anyway.)

I am not sure a lot more people would tune in to watch IMSA racing if the cars were a few mph faster ... but for those who do tune in, it is a lot easier to follow one-space-ship class and two normal-car classes than two of each ... as it is I imagine new viewers might be wondering what is up with the discussion of P2 and DPi.

The TV package would be a lot more palatable (possibly) if there were half as many stupid commercials and no idiotic fluff-n-puff pieces---Oh, Wait. Sorry. I meant to say, if there was seriously a single, homogenized top class, not a top class and a de facto sub-class.
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Old 29 Apr 2018, 00:34 (Ref:3817975)   #1930
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Wec has 4 classes so I don't see any issues. Not just that but some races there's only prototype and gtlm. I think it's a good idea personally. The dpi's can be faster and already are faster.
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Old 29 Apr 2018, 11:17 (Ref:3818057)   #1931
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IMSA is not likely go back to four classes unless some too good to pass up concept for another class comes along. And if the idea of a PFV class(a catch-all class for things like the Ginetta G57, Renault RS01 and the like, for those who don't recall) doesn't fit the bill, I don't see any such idea coming along anytime soon.

The thing is that to cause them to split the Prototype class, one side or the other would have to be on the verge of revolt(IE, the majority or all participants on that side seriously threatening to terminate their programs) before we'll see a split there, and that doesn't look to be happening anytime soon - not so long as every BoP change actually brings things closer to true parity(we can be as cynical as we want, but it won't change the fact that the gaps have shrunk with every BoP change).

Last edited by FormulaFox; 29 Apr 2018 at 11:23.
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Old 29 Apr 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3818140)   #1932
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The biggest race of the season. The greatest race in North America. The race broadcast in its entirety on Fox. Am I just too cynical to suggest it's more than just coincidence that the BoP was such that the DPis (manufacturer money) were the only cars realistically capable of winning these races?
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Old 30 Apr 2018, 18:29 (Ref:3818449)   #1933
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The biggest race of the season. The greatest race in North America. The race broadcast in its entirety on Fox. Am I just too cynical to suggest it's more than just coincidence that the BoP was such that the DPis (manufacturer money) were the only cars realistically capable of winning these races?
Let's see pro teams with cars they know inside and out, track they know like the back of their hand, tires they (OK well thought they) knew. Nope nothing at all suspect about them being the fastest. With all due respect to the Euro/WEC teams, and that's respect due to them running a team and I have zero experience only, they look like a Benny Hill sketch at times. Even Rebellion has had their brain fade moments. Other than Speedsource Mazda, the rest of the IMSA pro/DPi teams aren't quite Penske but not garagistas of old. The IMSA P2 teams with their Am drivers kept up so let's not pretend those visiting teams are the cream of the crop of racing teams. And that was with insanely talented driver lineups often. They have huge egos and the effort just isn't backing up their claims of being the best. I could not care any less if they protest and yell in to the void about it being "unfair" and honestly would prefer they just stayed away.
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Old 30 Apr 2018, 18:51 (Ref:3818454)   #1934
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I don't think he's talking America versus Europe, but rather manufacturer versus privateer.
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Old 30 Apr 2018, 19:13 (Ref:3818467)   #1935
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Same guy who claimed the P2 cars were fine on BoP because one of them did a fast lap somewhere.
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Old 30 Apr 2018, 19:15 (Ref:3818468)   #1936
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Can we not have that again.
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Old 10 May 2018, 02:35 (Ref:3821180)   #1937
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Has anyone noticed that the Penske Acuras at certain angles look like the Jaguar Budlight XJR-14? They seem to have the same general proportions, color and cockpit.
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Old 11 May 2018, 17:52 (Ref:3821542)   #1938
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Big discussion about DPI vs LMP1 on the Marshall Pruett This Week in Sportscars podcast. Good stuff. They thankfully don't leave out GT discussion too.

https://racer.com/2018/05/10/the-wee...raham-goodwin/


The main point is that they are not just compatible anymore. This was not brought up, but I wonder how a DPI would do at a place like Spa with Michilen tires and no BOP. They could be up there with the Oreca R13 cars maybe? Perhaps the remaining LMP2 teams like JDC and Performance Tech should look at ways to go to ELMS and abandon IMSA for the rest of the year.
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Old 11 May 2018, 17:53 (Ref:3821544)   #1939
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If you take away BoP from DPi then costs will get out of hand very quickly. You have manufacturers involved in that.
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Old 11 May 2018, 18:44 (Ref:3821551)   #1940
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but I wonder how a DPI would do at a place like Spa with Michilen tires and no BOP. They could be up there with the Oreca R13 cars maybe?
Not even close. The engine may provide enough power but the car would be way too heavy and not have enough downforce.
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Old 11 May 2018, 19:18 (Ref:3821555)   #1941
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Not even close. The engine may provide enough power but the car would be way too heavy and not have enough downforce.
And to add to this, whilst I'm sure the Caddy engine and Acura engines would provide enough power, the Mazda would last a lap before the most spectacular explosion ever.
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Old 12 May 2018, 04:28 (Ref:3821603)   #1942
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Has anyone noticed that the Penske Acuras at certain angles look like the Jaguar Budlight XJR-14? They seem to have the same general proportions, color and cockpit.
I guess not! A lot of you kids probably did not get to see the XJR-14 debut live in 1992 at RA.

The 3/4 profile, the stance and the color of the Acura's remind me of the Jag. Of course, put them side by side and there will huge differences. It's just those momentary glimpses that bring back those memories.
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Old 12 May 2018, 12:01 (Ref:3821679)   #1943
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I guess not! A lot of you kids probably did not get to see the XJR-14 debut live in 1992 at RA.

The 3/4 profile, the stance and the color of the Acura's remind me of the Jag. Of course, put them side by side and there will huge differences. It's just those momentary glimpses that bring back those memories.
I just had to go look at some videos. I can see the resemblance, especially in the front fender shape.
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Old 12 May 2018, 23:27 (Ref:3821914)   #1944
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My problem is I’m familiar with the XJR-14, but not the Acuras on track.
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Old 12 May 2018, 23:38 (Ref:3821917)   #1945
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I know of something that even more closely resembles (the front end of) the Acura DPi:



*hands out some barf buckets to all those assembled*
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Old 12 May 2018, 23:52 (Ref:3821920)   #1946
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I guess not! A lot of you kids probably did not get to see the XJR-14 debut live in 1992 at RA.

The 3/4 profile, the stance and the color of the Acura's remind me of the Jag. Of course, put them side by side and there will huge differences. It's just those momentary glimpses that bring back those memories.
You say the Acura looks like the XJR-14, what about the identical Oreca 07?
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Old 14 May 2018, 23:34 (Ref:3822462)   #1947
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My problem is I’m familiar with the XJR-14, but not the Acuras on track.
I saw the XJR-14 up close and on track while my comments about the Acuras were inspired by the video-replay of Mid-Ohio. There's something in the ratio of design and balance that triggers a memory.

I know this is comparing a seed to a tree. I've seen that original XJR-14 later metamorphize into 4 or 5 successful cars. In its later years, it really did not look or sound like it did in its youth but it was almost always successful.

We'll see with the Acuras but fun having them trigger these old memories.

Here's one of my favorite videos of the XJR-14 in a historic race at Monza. The instruments and video are much more modern but the left hand shift and the power and vibration of the flat-plane Cosworth are evident. Watch when the car gains speed and see the vibration in the video. The modern cars are so smooth.

It seemed getting the right gear selection on the left was a key. I remember seeing Davy Jones come flying down from T12 to T1 on his first flying lap and missing gears. He later figured it out. I think this is a reason we saw the introduction of the paddle shift.

I was next to the car as they worked on it and then started it up. Honestly, it sounded like a bunch of nuts and bolts had been thrown into a metal can and shaken. When I first heard it idling, I thought it was going to fall apart.

But, when at speed, oh what an incredible sound.

I'm sure the Acuras have a much more modern and smooth sound than that scream of the XJR-14. It's just that the Acuras are invoking those memories bodes well for the series, IMO.

Here's a YouTube I've watched many times. Interesting seeing that Momo steering wheel. I asked Moretti about the origins of the Momo name? He replied that it was a combination of the first two letters of his name, "Mo" and the first two letters of his favorite track Monza, "Mo" = MoMo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rl8NQhtvk8
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Old 15 May 2018, 02:20 (Ref:3822489)   #1948
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Here's one of my favorite videos of the XJR-14 in a historic race at Monza. The instruments and video are much more modern but the left hand shift and the power and vibration of the flat-plane Cosworth are evident. Watch when the car gains speed and see the vibration in the video. The modern cars are so smooth.

It seemed getting the right gear selection on the left was a key. I remember seeing Davy Jones come flying down from T12 to T1 on his first flying lap and missing gears. He later figured it out. I think this is a reason we saw the introduction of the paddle shift.

I was next to the car as they worked on it and then started it up. Honestly, it sounded like a bunch of nuts and bolts had been thrown into a metal can and shaken. When I first heard it idling, I thought it was going to fall apart.

But, when at speed, oh what an incredible sound.


Here's a YouTube I've watched many times. Interesting seeing that Momo steering wheel. I asked Moretti about the origins of the Momo name? He replied that it was a combination of the first two letters of his name, "Mo" and the first two letters of his favorite track Monza, "Mo" = MoMo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rl8NQhtvk8
Thanks for posting that video. It is a throwback seeing the steering wheel with no buttons, screens, paddles, knobs or anything on them.
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Old 8 Jun 2018, 00:24 (Ref:3827547)   #1949
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Barbosa is out at AXR for the next two races at Watkins Glen and Mosport due to injury. He'll be replaced by Christian Fittipaldi in those two races, with the #5 Cadillac expected to run only two drivers at Watkins Glen.
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Old 8 Jun 2018, 12:08 (Ref:3827641)   #1950
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Barbosa is out at AXR for the next two races at Watkins Glen and Mosport due to injury. He'll be replaced by Christian Fittipaldi in those two races, with the #5 Cadillac expected to run only two drivers at Watkins Glen.
Bit disappointed by their choice of replacement. Fittipaldi didn't strike me as extremely fast over the last few seasons. Would have been nice to see them draft in some Indycar talent.
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