1970's & 80's Super Saloons & Special Saloons (merged)

[John Turner]

Gregor, taken from the FAQs, this might help others, too:-

'To show a picture in the forum, use the image tag commands. To do this, type [img]fullimageurl[/img]
i.e.

Please use good sense when posting image links. Firstly, we only allow .jpg or .gif format. For any other format, not every user will have the capability to read it and some formats can cause problems with different types of browser.

Keep the image to a reasonable physical and data size. Remember, not everyone has a fast internet connection! As a guideline, pictures shouldn't be much more than 400 x 400 or thereabouts. Any picture that distorts the forum display is too large! Image links that are considered to be too large may be removed by the Moderators. If in doubt, ask!'

I note that the full 'ie' won't transfer so you need to go to the FAQs for the full note! If you are still unable to post the image, please PM me and we'll take it from there.

[GBRM]

Thanks John, when I get home from work tonight I'll give it a go, plus I have to try and find the photos again, hope I filed them under C; Dad had thousands of photos that I've now organised in some form of sense!!

[Cameron Winton]

Lot of Corvair slagging off here. Read the book about John Cooper (Grand Prix Carpetbagger) & he states that the problem with the Corvair was that the limit of adhesion was much higher than your common or garden american saloon at the time (around 62 - before the pony car era) and it when it started sliding, the transition was faster/less progressive than cars like the Ford fairline etc
It was a good car for it's time and possibly unfairly tagged as dangerous by Nader. Worst thing about a Corvair was the fan belt. It went through several 90 deg bends in all three dimensions.

[Al Weyman]

I had one years ago and as i recollect it had a very novel heater system. Being aircooled instead of using the VW beetle method of blowing air past hot manifolds to stink the car out with fumes it had a petrol driven space heater like a miniture garage heater complete with its own spark plug and timer system so you could set it to fire up 10 minutes before you got to the car on a frosty morning and it was all wonderfully warmed up and defrosted! Either that or it was a pile of ashes :-). I think the new Range Rover has a similiar (hopefully refined) system.

[Alan Raine]

This was posted in the Historic section today with more info on the Corvair and that beautiful louvred bonnet!

Originally Posted by COLIN STUBBS

http://www.racing70s.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/racing70s/GMcars/camaro_01.htm

http://www.racing70s.pwp.blueyonder..../camaro_01.htm

[Rennen]

I went with Tony Strawson to Ian Richardson's workshop in Ampthill when the Corvair was being constructed. Bob Torrey did a lot of the original fabrication working for Ian. The car was in fact a steel Chevy Corvair shell with tube subframes. The doors, boot and bonnet were fibreglass copies, and the wheels, brakes and suspension were CanAm McLaren unused spares, out of McLarens skip! The monster 7.6 litre mid engine, was intened to have the Hilborn fuel injection system with those long unequal length trumpets, but they didn't fit within the regulation silhouette (back window) shape and had to be shelved in favour of 4 downdraft Webbers.

After Richardson ran it a few times, it was purchased by Marshall Wingfield, Gerry let his old mate Mick Leary race it at Silverstone. Mick just planted the ole right peddle and when he looked in the mirror he thought it must have been a false start, as no one was in sight! He came thundering around Woodcote with a smile as wide as the apperture of his Bell Helmet!

[edmcd]

I drove this car yesterday at Snetterton for a magazine article...does anyone have contact info for Walter Robertson or photos of the car in Skoda mode?
Thanks
Ed McDonough

[driftwood]

there is a site blueyonder 70`s phots where u will get some skoda fotos of that era
i dont have the full web data to hand

[Bodysnatcher]

just came across these tonight...

http://tentenths.com/gallery/showpho...to=221&cat=500

[driftwood]

ex colin hawker DFVW car Nee Duckhams LM car for de cadanet driven here by walter robinson
Dog Niven in VW bettle ex Mick Hill car
Imp is i think laurence jacobsen with a chevron under the body cant recall for sure but i think single seater car

[Dan Rear]

The Jacobson "Chimp" used B29 parts IIRC.

[driftwood]

from the foto i saw the other day it was centre seat so i assume it was B29 car?!

[Dan Rear]

Yeah, see B29 thread. It was B29-75-17, later to Eric Munnoch, with a V8 Rover!

[Clive Brown]

Tony Dickinson had two Skoda Coupe Special Saloons , both powered as I recall by a Hart 420R . The first of these was based on a Lola T290/2 ( too heavy ) , and the latter on a T492 S2000 chassis . It was the latter that I believe Alan Humberstone's dad Harry acquired ; in pink livery , it raced a number of times in Alan's hands , and was later rebodied as a VW Karmann Ghia . The body was indeed taken from David Enderby's moulds , the car was indeed pink , and contrary to previous postings , it did race at least once , at Lydden Hill and with Hart 420R power .

There were many more Skoda Special Saloons about than have been mentioned to date ; most of these were Chevron -based . Tony Sugden had one , Jim Price drove a sister car , mostly at Donnington , and the Sweatie racer Iain McLaren had one based on 'Chocolate Drop' , the legendary B31 , and I think an earlier one based on a B26 . I think the earlier car used a two litre engine ( possibly a BDG ? ) , whereas the later car might have used a Cosworth GA .

I know all this because I was involved with Special Saloons/GTs from 1972 onwards , and the VW Karmann Ghia started out as a joint idea between myself and David Enderby . Apart from building the car's original Imp motors , I designed the panels for the car , which were made by Fibresports at Basildon . The project came about because the Maguire Stilettos were frankly all much of a muchness , and we were looking for a competitive advantage over the similar cars of Brian Cutting and Pat Mannion . The Maguire cars had represented a step forward because they were low and light , but the chassis did have a number of shortcomings . The KG could legally be made 2" lower than a Stiletto ( the later Ray Imps were illegally low ) , it could produce more downforce for less drag , and its longer wheelbase ( a foot more than an Imp ) and mid-engined configuration made it much more stable round Thruxton .

The latter was not David's best circuit , but because the Wendy Wools was a BARC Championship , we inevitably went there several times a year . It was , though , Brian Cutting's home circuit . Both he and Pat Mannion , who had Brian's previous Maguire Stiletto , used strong engines prepared by Ray Payne of Hartwell's in Bournemouth ; Ray himself was no mean racer , and a Thruxton ace in his own right , and consequently , both Brian and Pat had motors which were very much optimised for the circuit . Add to this Ginger Marshall's amazing Reliant Kitten , and clearly , Something had to be done !

Colin Hawker's DFVW was not a Variant , but a 1600TL . Why they missed the trick of using the vastly-superior aerodynamically KG shape I really don't know ; perhaps they didn't believe it qualified as a saloon car ; David and I checked with the RAC and the FIA before we started ! Incidentally , Colin's career met a most unfortunate end ; whilst renovating a house , a fireplace fell on , and broke , his right ankle , which never recovered its motility . As he could no longer properly operate throttle/brake pedals , that was that .

The last time I saw the Mick Hill VW Beetle , Dougie Niven had sold it to Kent racer Gary Charlwood . I remember lying on my back inside the car in a pool of petrol at Lydden changing a failed Lucas HP petrol pump .... Oh happy days !

Anyway , enough of these ramblings .

Regards

Clive Brown

[chunterer]

Welcome Clive and thanks for your account of the Special Saloon competition in the late 70's early 80's!!

Look forward to hearing more of your memories of the category and the luminaries that ran in it!!!

[Clive Brown]

The George Bevan 1 litre Special Saloon Imp was built and driven by Rob Mason for one season only ( 1976) ; it was then exchanged for the ex-Tony Dickinson 1300 BDA Stiletto , which had passed into the hands of the Nottingham , er , entrepeneur , Malcolm Johnstone , and had by that time been fitted with a 1930cc Alan Smith FVC and an FT200 . The car as bought was a heap of **** , and required months of work before it was raceworthy . Malcolm Johnstone raced the 1976 car in 1977 , and then sold it to Paul Haywood-Halfpenny , who is best remembered for winning a Sports 2000 race in a Lola 492 at Mallory Park by a country mile using an engine prepared by Jim Nifton , who used to be Andy Chesman's right-hand man at Greetham Engineering ( 54 Edgwick Road , Coventry , as I recall ) . " Cam-a-cam-a-chameleon " . George Bevan bought a David Wood BDG from Zekia Redjep for the car , but this blew up disastrously at Snetterton at its first meeting after a full rebuild by **** ********* , and at the end of the season , George just couldn't afford to keep going , and so sold the car back to Malcolm Johnstone .

270 bhp in a 7' wheelbase is , though , not easy to handle , and in due course , Johnstone wrote the car off in 1978 .

The full saga of the Mason/Humberstone Imps and Stilletos can wait until another day !

[chunterer]

Cracking info Clive.

If I may point you to this thread though, as I suspect most of what you can tell us might be better suited to a general thread of the category.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78201

Hope you enjoy reading it first of all!!

[chunterer]

New member CliveBrown was involved in Special Saloons during the period and i'm looking forward to reading more of his posts everyone!!

[Clive Brown]

Jacobsen's was not the original Chimp . That was a car which first appeared at Thruxton , driven by the very talented and very under-rated Jonathan Buncombe ( how come idiots like Fatman got so many good drives ? ) , using Imp saloon silhouette bodywork over a Chevron B19 or B21 chassis , powered I think by a Swindon-built FVD of 1975cc capacity . The FVD was in itself a rarity ; most big four pot Fords of the period were long-stroke FVCs , with the original 1790cc bore , but a long stroke crank , built by people like Alan Smith of Derby or Geoff Richardson at Kimbolton in Cambridgeshire . The FVD , though , used a special block with a full 90mm bore , which retained the standard , shorter , stroke of the FVC . The later Cosworth BDG used these same bore and stroke dimensions .

Incidentally , most engines advertised nowadays as BDGs are nothing of the sort ; a BDG is a Cosworth iron-blocked motor with Lucas fuel injection . If it's got an alloy block , or has carburretors , or starts easily in cold weather , it's not a BDG !

But I digress .... The Chimp was very fast , but was built with total disregard of both the letter and spirit of the regulations . It retained the standard Chevron wheelbase , more than a foot longer than that of the Imp , and used a rear wing the horizontal planar surface of which was meant to represent the top-hinged rear window of the Imp in its open position . The wing had massive vertical side plates made of perspex , which the cars' creators claimed did not infringe the silhouette regulations because they were transparent .

It did at least comply with the rule that the driver had to be seated wholly to one side of the centre line ; in my view the beginning of the end for Special Saloons was the lucrative Donnington GT championship , which sought with the best of intentions to combine the best of Special Saloons and Modified Sports Cars , but through a naive approach to formulating regulations for the series , allowed all sorts of freaks such as the centrally-seated Jacobsen Chimp with its horrendously ugly lowered bonnet . At a stroke , this took all the ingenuity out of building a Special , which to me was most of the fun . The legacy of this can be seen today in the ridiculous Castle Coombe GT championship , where the rich and talentless race their wallets .

Regards

Meldrew

[Al Weyman]

Say it how it is clive :-) Are you Victor Meldrew out of the closet?

[Dan Rear]

Very interesting Clive. Couple of comments, first the Mclaren Chocolate Drop Chevron was B26 not B31, and the 'other' Skoda you mention, with the 3.4GA, was Jimmy Robertson, not Iain M I think.

The Hill Beetle is alive and well, and being renovated as we speak, up north here.

Finally, you mention Paul H-H, and that S2000 race. I was there, and it was very strange how easily he won... He also owned Baby Bertha for a while too.

[driftwood]

The Jacobsen Chimp is now as a Chevron B25 sitting in a garage being rebuilt to race next year
the original Chimps is racing as a 2 litre sports car

when Victor meldrew brown was a young man he built the Imp engines with George Bevan and then the 2 litre BDG in the 2 litre Imp ( ex Tony Dickenson 1300 cc car) raced for George by the talented Rob Mason
look here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xBB5VRmDHtU
an old cine/video clip of the bevan Imp at Brands and the long haired hippy looking man with yellow shirt & glasses on pitwall is Victor meldrew Brown
and would you believe me this student became a bank manager!!

[Dan Rear]

Jacobson Chimp was B29 not B25 drifty wasn't it?

[driftwood]

Jim Price Skoda was chevron B19
Jimmy R skoda Ga was March 74S-6 ex Argylle racing 3 litre dfv 74 WCM racer
restored years ago and raced in Masters sports car series

Mick Hills Beetle was broken up as it used Trojan or Leda F5000 corners i heard it went from Kent oop norf
Gary Gharlwood also had the Janglia ( jag engined Anglia and had a Capri all nicely presented)
Hawkers DFVW with ex J Stewart DFV was the 1972 Duckhams LM car built by De Cadanet car now rebuilt as Duckhams car in USA
Baby Bertha went from Gerry to PH-H then Phil Barak to its current owner Joe Ward

The 2litre Bevan Imp was based on a steel shell with March corners i recall George saying the car was " too square" with its width to wheelbase and was not an easy car to drive by Rob was mustard

Dickenson skoda- i dont recall a 2nd T490 based car car running it must have been a short years racing of that car the original car was based on Lola T290 car and the old chassis is lying in a yard "sans" roll cage

there was a skoda 1300 cc i recall David Auger drove was that a S2000 based car

[driftwood]

same **** different bucket to me!
akin to a joke i heard
sailor is on the deck of ship and a jewish gentleman walks past and he punches him
the captain asked what did you do that for?

sailor replied my grandparents died on the Titanic
captain replied but it was sunk by an Iceberg!!
sailor retorted
Iceberg ? Goldberg? whats the difference !!!