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Old 15 Nov 2012, 10:10 (Ref:3166565)   #26
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But even when they've explained the technical bizz in simple terms, people still jump up and down on here and say that it's a foreign language to them. Phrases like 'yeild' and 'net gain' spring to mind.

Kinda reminds me of how everyone bags out the team that's dominating, but not the teams that are down the back of the field. Could be time some people hit the books and earnt themselves some education.

On the whole, the CH7 team does an ok job. The people pulling the strings need to be taught a few things in viewer satisfaction, though.
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Old 15 Nov 2012, 22:20 (Ref:3166847)   #27
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Talking about commentators that give a headache:
http://jalopnik.com/5960933/nbc-hire...ium=socialflow
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Old 15 Nov 2012, 23:30 (Ref:3166871)   #28
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As the thread title is "TV Race commentators" I can maybe get away with posting this little gem I was sent from a yachting friend of mine. (ie. non-motorsport link)

http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/20...boat-race.html
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Old 17 Nov 2012, 11:25 (Ref:3167456)   #29
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You must be stunned quite often then. At least on the internet forums and social media discussions, Neil seems very popular. His being in bed with Lowndes is the only usual critique.
Yeah.

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My thinking is that the entire Channel 7 team pander towards the casual viewer - like most sports presenting teams. It's all about getting new bums on seats, knowing fully well that the 'diehard' fan will turn up and watch the racing no matter what wally is shoved behind the mic (not that I think any of the current squad are wally's). This explains why we have to put up with Larko explaining to us on the white-board and in the tech-centre what understeer and oversteer are 12 times a year, it's why White and Skaife are constantly shouting (since shouting is a simple way of signifying that what's showing on the screens in front of you is entertaining - THE BEST *blank* YOU WILL EVER SEE), and it's why Crompton is consistently employing 'Cromptonisms' in his commentry, to simplify things for the new audience - but at the same time make them feel clued-up by giving them their own set of motorsport jargon. Reverse window this, V8 Supercarland that.
I've actually considered this opinion since I saw it. I came to a conclusion that they are not appealing to the casual viewer, nor to the die hard fan. For die hard fans, yes they'll turn up to watch it anyway. The casual viewer is not going to be swayed or tempted by their terrible, over the top commentary. Casual viewers would benefit more from listening to proper racing jargon, then figuring out what's going on for themselves.

So, who are they commentating to? I came to the conclusion that there is another type of racing fan they're commentating to, but hasn't been defined yet. I will call them the lightweight, fair weathered racing fan.

You may know "lightweight, fair weathered racing fan". The guy who "likes" racing, but doesn't grasp the natural form of top-level motorsport and complains whenever the "racing" doesn't suit their liking and needs to be stimulated all the time to stay interested in the race. Some may participate in forums like these and claim to be a racing fan, but deep down, they're not.

They are the Matty White of racing fans. Matty doesn't really like racing, he only got involved in motorsport because he was there at C10, when C10 went down the motorsport route in in 96. If C10 hadn't gone down that route, he wouldn't have given a ****. He just likes the motorsport industry (or maybe just the V8 industry) and loves being a part of it. However, he sees it only as a form of entertainment, as opposed to a discipline.
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Old 17 Nov 2012, 11:41 (Ref:3167466)   #30
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As the thread title is "TV Race commentators" I can maybe get away with posting this little gem I was sent from a yachting friend of mine. (ie. non-motorsport link)

http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/20...boat-race.html


Brilliant!
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Old 17 Nov 2012, 19:59 (Ref:3167594)   #31
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Yeah.

I've actually considered this opinion since I saw it. I came to a conclusion that they are not appealing to the casual viewer, nor to the die hard fan. For die hard fans, yes they'll turn up to watch it anyway. The casual viewer is not going to be swayed or tempted by their terrible, over the top commentary. Casual viewers would benefit more from listening to proper racing jargon, then figuring out what's going on for themselves.

So, who are they commentating to? I came to the conclusion that there is another type of racing fan they're commentating to, but hasn't been defined yet. I will call them the lightweight, fair weathered racing fan.

You may know "lightweight, fair weathered racing fan". The guy who "likes" racing, but doesn't grasp the natural form of top-level motorsport and complains whenever the "racing" doesn't suit their liking and needs to be stimulated all the time to stay interested in the race. Some may participate in forums like these and claim to be a racing fan, but deep down, they're not.

They are the Matty White of racing fans. Matty doesn't really like racing, he only got involved in motorsport because he was there at C10, when C10 went down the motorsport route in in 96. If C10 hadn't gone down that route, he wouldn't have given a ****. He just likes the motorsport industry (or maybe just the V8 industry) and loves being a part of it. However, he sees it only as a form of entertainment, as opposed to a discipline.
Well I would consider myself a 'diehard', and I'm moderately happy with what we've got. Although maybe that's because I also follow Nascar, WTCC, GP2/3 and IRL - where the commentary is (my opinion) worse than what we have here. I don't mind Mike Joy, Jarrett and a few others, but beyond them... no thanks.

If you're on Facebook or Twitter, I think you'd agree that there's a damn large percentage of 'lightweight, fair weathered racing fans' out there - going by the frequently trashy and short-sighted exchanges that happen on the official V8SC Facebook page Perhaps this group still represent a majority?

Name a big-time category which still hums along nicely with big audience both on TV and in attendence, but frames its category as being a "discipline" and not an "entertainment". Sportscar and Le Mans racing would probably come close in most cases (you can tell that it's not something I follow - mainly because none of it ends up on TV down here). Formula 1 would be close however, I'd argue that with the frequent cut-shots to whatever celebrities are in attendence and the inclusion of DRS it's taken a step away from what the purist would want from it. IRL's the same with its inclusion of a boost button. WTCC's telecast format screws it from the start, with a build-up that usually goes on for as long as the race does at every event, often consisting of as many close-up shots of grid girls as shots of drivers/teams. They also have the partial-reverse grid system for the second race of each weekend which deliberately mixes the order. Then there's Nascar which is... Nascar.

Having V8 Supercars pitch themselves as an entertainment instead of as a discipline shouldn't really come across as offensive. Everyone's doing it. And really most fans of motorsport should be happy to see any category they follow make changes and tweaks which attempt to get more people watching. Since it's these people which keep categories alive.

On another note - just curious. Which past V8 Supercar commentry team would you prefer to the one we've got currently? I still prefer the current set-up to the Raymond/Wilkinson/Moulray era, and only marginally over the Diffey/Oastler/Sheene era. I'm not sure whether I prefer Diffey or White. Their styles and voices are pretty much identical.
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Old 18 Nov 2012, 10:02 (Ref:3167812)   #32
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If you're on Facebook or Twitter, I think you'd agree that there's a damn large percentage of 'lightweight, fair weathered racing fans' out there - going by the frequently trashy and short-sighted exchanges that happen on the official V8SC Facebook page Perhaps this group still represent a majority?
Not "perhaps".

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Name a big-time category which still hums along nicely with big audience both on TV and in attendence, but frames its category as being a "discipline" and not an "entertainment"
There's none I can think of off the top of my head and I'm not sure there are any that involve 4 wheels. I'll also say I'm not sure, even amongst hardened fans, people in the motorsport industry and even big name drivers, that driving is recognised as a discipline. Maybe as an expression, but not a discipline.


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Having V8 Supercars pitch themselves as an entertainment instead of as a discipline shouldn't really come across as offensive. Everyone's doing it.
That is a major part of the problem. It's accepted and ingrained in motorsport culture. It will be extremely hard to remove


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And really most fans of motorsport should be happy to see any category they follow make changes and tweaks which attempt to get more people watching. Since it's these people which keep categories alive.
"Tweaks" I can accept. But in all the time I've followed motorsport, "tweaks" never occur. Ridiculous, wholesale changes? Definitely. F1 is most guilty of this, it's pathetic what's evolved since 1993.

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On another note - just curious. Which past V8 Supercar commentry team would you prefer to the one we've got currently?
If you're asking commentary teams that actually existed, I was ok with Raymond, Moffat, Oastler way back when at C7. Thinking about it now, even I recognise there could be a better combo.

I'll expand on this by saying that Raymond is the better generic tv station rep. Neil was better then, than the try-hard he is now. If Skaife toned it down a bit and actually became the dour, straight talking expert, he'd be tonnes better. Despite his status, there are time when I hear Skaife make a remark and I think "Shouldn't you be answering that, or providing the insight?"
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Old 18 Nov 2012, 11:31 (Ref:3167850)   #33
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Having V8 Supercars pitch themselves as an entertainment instead of as a discipline shouldn't really come across as offensive. .
What I forgot to mention about his quote was that there a difference between finding something, like motor racing, "entertaining" and "entertainment". Driving is a discipline, a skill. Some people find car racing "entertaining' to watch. Fundamentally, car racing is an outlet to find out what is the best car built. It can also be used to determine who is the most skilled driver. However, both are not "entertainiment", despite some people finding it "entertaining". Film/music/tv, arts/performance? That is "entertainment".

The mistake governing bodies of competitions make, is to buy into the entertainment side, as though that is actually what it is. They also allowed themselves and each series to be dictated to by media. As a result, we get to see pathetic, unnecessary rules like a soft and hard tyre, where both have to be used. They don't even consider why manufacturers made multiple compounds in the first place. They're idiots.
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Old 21 Nov 2012, 11:33 (Ref:3169401)   #34
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I like Neil Crompton, and Mark Skaife for that matter, as they often explain when someone is loosing grip at either end of the car, or made a change to roll centre or sway bars, what that actually does the car and ho it will make the car handle better. That stuff is what helps the little club racing guy like me learn and improve our own cars and racing.

I can't stand the NZ commentators - Phil Dark is terrible, always "crossing the stripe" and "rubbings' racing" and all sorts of other crap he continuously spews forth. And Mark Pederson, Andrew Anderson, et al are in the same boat. About the only guy I can actually listen too is Andy Booth, he's actually pretty good behind the mic. Haven't heard Jamie whoever though as I haven't been home for a while. Overall the standard of tv coverage or motor racing in Australia is far better than in NZ - V8 Supercars is live on free to air ( or slightly delayed depending on which state you're in ), MotoGP live on free to air, same for Formula 1. No paying for Sky TV crap over here!!! And n0 dummy commentators
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Old 21 Nov 2012, 21:44 (Ref:3169582)   #35
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I like Neil Crompton, and Mark Skaife for that matter, as they often explain when someone is loosing grip at either end of the car, or made a change to roll centre or sway bars, what that actually does the car and ho it will make the car handle better. That stuff is what helps the little club racing guy like me learn and improve our own cars and racing.

+1.

Skaife is a great commentator. I never liked him as a driver as he always seemed to be defensive or complaining about something (never seemed to be a happy camper in front of the camera).
Love the technical explanations from the entire team and Larko's contribution to the entire production.
The category (and sport) NEEDS the technical info and information as to how things work and why things happen.
It draws in those of us who don't have a mechanical / technical background and provides a great understanding of what's going on.
It brings in Kids, teens and mums and dads. (BTW my missus loves Larko's tech tips too.. was great to meet him on Sunday at Winton... TOP BLOKE)
Without it you only have a 25-50 year old, male demographic with a background in the auto trade as a supporter base.

Fans= $$ = sucess and growth of the sport.

They can bugger off that Tom Williams bloke though.

Bring back the commentators "hot lap" with the track explanation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OblHKnGYs8
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Old 22 Nov 2012, 02:50 (Ref:3169672)   #36
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I enjoyed the hotlaps. Especially the one Larko did in the #9 SBR car at Sandown, including a full-blown launch off the line.
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Old 22 Nov 2012, 06:28 (Ref:3169707)   #37
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Skaife is a great commentator.
Dave, I agree with everything you said except the above line. Skaifey may have had great race experience, but as a commentator, he's too over the top for me. I had to do a double take when he yelled "they're 3 abreast into (whatever corner it was)" at Abu Dhabi. The 3 drivers weren't, they stayed line astern, into, through, and out of that corner. At the time, I called him a special sort of wit .
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 06:16 (Ref:3170778)   #38
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Baz if he was still with us and Larko in the pits, Cromley does the intros and is joined by Skaife and Noonz in the box would be my line up of choice. Forget Mssrs Raymond, Mulray, Oastler, Diffey etc etc. Maybe drag in Greg Rust for the intro.

But priority number 1, get rid of Matt White.
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 07:26 (Ref:3170792)   #39
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Baz if he was still with us and Larko in the pits, Cromley does the intros and is joined by Skaife and Noonz in the box would be my line up of choice. Forget Mssrs Raymond, Mulray, Oastler, Diffey etc etc. Maybe drag in Greg Rust for the intro.

But priority number 1, get rid of Matt White.
I actually think they need to bring in a female to the commentary booth. There needs to be some intellectual conversation & banter in the commentary, rather than just change the pitch and modulation of the voices as the former race pilots flagellate over some incident or another

Erin Molan would be outstanding in this role. Great sporting knowledge in all kinds of categories, knows V8SC as she has reported on it for #9, has been for a ride with Mr Van Gisbergen... so could be the perfect choice

Professional, intelligent, does her research. Sounds like what we are looking for to add to the team.
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 08:17 (Ref:3170801)   #40
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Briony Ingerson? No?
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 08:26 (Ref:3170803)   #41
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I actually think they need to bring in a female to the commentary booth. There needs to be some intellectual conversation & banter in the commentary, rather than just change the pitch and modulation of the voices as the former race pilots flagellate over some incident or another

Erin Molan would be outstanding in this role. Great sporting knowledge in all kinds of categories, knows V8SC as she has reported on it for #9, has been for a ride with Mr Van Gisbergen... so could be the perfect choice

Professional, intelligent, does her research. Sounds like what we are looking for to add to the team.
I was going to say Lara Bingle, however
you asked for professional and
intelligent, plus someone would have to
drive her to and from the track.
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 08:51 (Ref:3170807)   #42
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Briony Ingerson? No?
It would mean pulling from the WAG talent pool again...

A genuine broadcaster with a sporting bent, that isnt a wife, girlfriend or former anything to the sport would likely be preferable..
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 08:55 (Ref:3170809)   #43
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I actually think they need to bring in a female to the commentary booth. There needs to be some intellectual conversation & banter in the commentary, rather than just change the pitch and modulation of the voices as the former race pilots flagellate over some incident or another

Erin Molan would be outstanding in this role. Great sporting knowledge in all kinds of categories, knows V8SC as she has reported on it for #9, has been for a ride with Mr Van Gisbergen... so could be the perfect choice

Professional, intelligent, does her research. Sounds like what we are looking for to add to the team.


The ride was at Homebush.. last year.. with Mr Ingall..
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Old 25 Nov 2012, 11:40 (Ref:3170866)   #44
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I actually think they need to bring in a female to the commentary booth. There needs to be some intellectual conversation & banter in the commentary, rather than just change the pitch and modulation of the voices as the former race pilots flagellate over some incident or another

Erin Molan would be outstanding in this role. Great sporting knowledge in all kinds of categories, knows V8SC as she has reported on it for #9, has been for a ride with Mr Van Gisbergen... so could be the perfect choice

Professional, intelligent, does her research. Sounds like what we are looking for to add to the team.
Mrs Briscoe?
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Old 27 Nov 2012, 13:56 (Ref:3172230)   #45
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