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Old 24 Jun 2004, 17:57 (Ref:1014921)   #1
pgtr
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Variations on a theme: C5 'production based racing'

Variations on a theme: C5 'production based racing'

Is there a good definition for production based racing? Or is it somewhat open to interpretation?

At one end I see what appear to be 'true' production based C5s such as the Z06 models being raced in things like Speed WC. Certainly they have mods like rollbars and wheels/tires etc but they appear to have started life once upon a time as a C5 rolling down the assembly line.


At another end I see tube framed race cars w/ somewhat crudish silhouette bodies that resemble a C5 from the side in Trans Am. If NASCAR Cup is production based then I guess so it this. But the engine, suspension, frame, transmission aren't - at least not as far as what comes out of Bowling Green. The body kinda sorta is in the ballpark of a C5 however.

The 'factory' C5Rs of ALMS? Kinda confusing to me - can someone clarify? It has an engine/transmission that are certainly not production based in it's BB Katech engine. The body - well it looks pretty darn close to OEM but I think it's custom fabbed out of carbon fibre? The frame? Not sure - I think it's been posted here they have a pair of hydroformed rails from teh factory but they then fab up their own racing frame around it. Dimensionally I think it cheats a bit as to things like wheel placement. Just what bits and pieces on this car actually come out of the factory parts bin vs being fabbed up by Pratt Miller or whoever?

Grand-Am? I think in theory both 'true' production based C5s (ala Speed WC?) and tube framed C5s (ala Trans Am?) can be run here but of all the series this is the one I know the least about...

It seems to me there is no clear definition of Production Based and adjectives like 'kinda-sorta' and 'true' are sometimes needed to define just how producion based a race car is. The same question probably holds true for any sports/GT racing car Ferrari, Porsche etc - I just used the C5 as an example.
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Old 24 Jun 2004, 19:43 (Ref:1015064)   #2
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
the 550 Prodrive is derived from the roadgoing car .. as far as i know ..
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Old 24 Jun 2004, 19:58 (Ref:1015088)   #3
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Doesn't Prodrive buy a road 550, strip it apart, and then add the suspension/engine/aero modifications? All because Ferrari wouldn't give their blessing, but instead gave it to the 575, which is a widebody like the C5-R and won't have as good top speed.
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Old 24 Jun 2004, 20:21 (Ref:1015112)   #4
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
i think both 550 and the 575 are build starting from a road going 550 or 575 ..
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Old 24 Jun 2004, 20:54 (Ref:1015154)   #5
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Does PrattMiller start w/ a pair of hydroformed frame rails and fab up their frame or do they get a full completed frame and modify it from there?

The mention of starting w/ road going 550s 575s reminded me - whatever happened to the Corvette 'kits' they offered race teams a few years back? I guess they no longer offer that?

Also what would be the benefit of choosing a 550 over a C5 in ALMS? Obvioulsy ProDrive showed us that a privateer 550 could be setup to run against the factory C5Rs in ALMS - why couldn't someone do it starting w/ a road going C5?
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Old 24 Jun 2004, 23:05 (Ref:1015350)   #6
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Originally posted by RM40
Doesn't Prodrive buy a road 550, strip it apart, and then add the suspension/engine/aero modifications? All because Ferrari wouldn't give their blessing, but instead gave it to the 575, which is a widebody like the C5-R and won't have as good top speed.
They do. Here's a even better story; one of the BMS 550's in FIAGT is built from a 550 that Mike Hezemans owned.
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Old 25 Jun 2004, 00:00 (Ref:1015393)   #7
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lol .. that is a good story ..
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Old 25 Jun 2004, 03:13 (Ref:1015497)   #8
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The C5R is almost all P&M. I beleive the rear fenders are still production spec. A Corvette was rolled in to P&M's shop with the orders to build a racing version. The Katech is just a big beefed up LS1. The TA cars are TA cars. However they are closer to the road car than the Mustangs are, as the Stang use a NASCAR engine, or at least that's true of the Heritage Mustang (#48). I think the Highlander Vette is the closest to the Speed GT Vettes, and is a road car conversion. There's a differance in production based and production. The C5R conforms to the ACO's rules, not to the road version.

Prodrive's 550s are came off used car lots, then they were EXTENSIVELY rebuilt. Road car versus road car, the Maranello is definately a better platform to do this than the Vette. Also, to be up with the enginuity of P&M and the cash of GM, you're gonna have to be as GOOD as Prodrive is. Good luck. The 575s are built by Ferrari, and begin life as a race car. They could be as fast as the Vettes with good sponsorship, or if Ferrari suddenly got real interested in winning the GTS class at Le Mans. Maybe if cost cutting comes into play for F1, they'll throw a couple of dimes Sullivan's way. Let's hope so. Or let's hope not if you're an F1 purist. I'd much rather see money poured over on a Le Mans effort.
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Old 25 Jun 2004, 05:25 (Ref:1015551)   #9
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Thanks Chevyguy.

So the C5R is an example of 'production based' racing?

The C5 Z06s of SPeed WC are example of 'production' racing?

What would the TA C5s be? also 'production based'?

I agree - I'd like to see the Ferraris and others step up to the plate more. I think the factory backed C5Rs may otherwise lack good sustained competition. The GTS field has been rediculously shallow. Last season it was a pair of factoyr backed C5Rs and a pair of ProDrives that ran awfully well and gave them a good run. W/o the Prodrives this season and an iffy schedule for the 575s - I don't know where there is even potential for good competition in GTS and we are left trying to guage C5 performance against the prototypes. But within GTS - potentially a yawner...?

Isn't the Katech something like 7L? Any good articles or links on it's buildup from a 'just an LS1'?

Also can you elaborate or provide any examples on what amkes the 550 a better basis for setup as a GTS car? Intuitively I would have guessed the C5 to be a good basis but obviously nobody has done it including Prodrive who chose 550s. Anway inquiring minds want to know!!! (And what happened to the C5 kit cars? Was that a 1 time deal a few years ago?)
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Old 25 Jun 2004, 21:40 (Ref:1016363)   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by pgtr
[B]Thanks Chevyguy.

So the C5R is an example of 'production based' racing?
Yes

Quote:
The C5 Z06s of SPeed WC are example of 'production' racing?
Yes

[QUOTE]
What would the TA C5s be? also 'production based'?
[QUOTE]

Nope

Quote:
Isn't the Katech something like 7L? Any good articles or links on it's buildup from a 'just an LS1'?
Bored and stroked LS1. 427ci is about the max you can get out of a small block aka LS1.

Quote:
Also can you elaborate or provide any examples on what amkes the 550 a better basis for setup as a GTS car?
Team preference. Has alot more history in European racing than the Vette. Notice that the 550 teams are Euro.

Quote:
Intuitively I would have guessed the C5 to be a good basis but obviously nobody has done it including Prodrive who chose 550s. Anway inquiring minds want to know!!!
CARE racing(IIRC that's who paid prodrive) wanted 550s. So they got 550s. Also see my above answer.
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Old 26 Jun 2004, 04:10 (Ref:1016537)   #11
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They have already produced 454 in.cu. versions of the LS-1.
I am not sure what the absolute, i.e. bored to the point that one cannot do a hone cleanup, size is but I doubt it could pass 470 in.cu. if even that.
Bob
PS-The item on the C5R that makes the suspension different from the prod. mod. is ALMS, unlike the early IMSA AAGT cars, allows a track, hub-to-hub, wider than the prod. car.
Other wise it is just another example of mod. prod. using the roll-cage as a quasi frame to attach the original to.
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Old 29 Jun 2004, 06:17 (Ref:1019720)   #12
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Sorry, three days with no net.

In addition to what Bob stated, ALL GTS cars have a flatbottom and diffuser, same as the LMPs do. If your interested in design differences on the Vettes, Revell offers 1:24 models of both the C5 and C5R, and are fairly easy to assemble.
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